unity-design team mailing list archive

[Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 13:17, pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Dear Adrian,
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Wow ,  that's a shocking suggestion :  in order to see what's
>> available I need to start an application.
>> And this is supposed to be a progress compared to the old-style
>> desktop environments that can display a quick list of categories
>> without external software.
>
> The Dash is part of Unity just like the "Application menu" is part of
> Gnome 2.

> From the user point of view there isn't a new application to open.

What do you mean by that ?


>> I'd really like to understand the rationale against the idea of having
>> some sort of applications browser that is usable like an old-style
>> Applications menu    :    see a list of categories and be able to see
>> the contents of a category WITHOUT clicking on anything.
>>
>
> You still have an application browser, the only difference, as you
> said, is that you need to click on the categories, instead of just
> moving the mouse.

It's more than that  :    it's also a problem with how the results are
displayed.

After clicking on a category it shows only one row of applications .
In order to see all of them i have to click on "see more N results" .

This gives me a constant feeling that  "probably there are more things
in there  that i don't know about " .

The "Apps available for Download"  are eating much too space.   And as
a result the user is forced to "See more results"   after every filter
search .



>> Please believe me that in gnome2 or xfce   I use the apps menu a lot .
>>  It's easy enough so that i rarely feel the need to create shortcuts
>> on a panel.   Every application has it's own well defined place inside
>> the menu.
>>
>
> Here is the key for your discomfort. You are used to open your
> applications using the menu and did not like the idea of typing the
> name (or description) in the Dash. One of the main characteristics of
> the Dash, IMHO, is that the best way to find an application using it
> is by typing Super+"name or description of the application" instead of
> using the mouse until pointing the right place. You should give it a
> try, it is much faster than using a mouse and you'll get much faster
> after one of two days. If you insist on using only the mouse, than the
> Dash is certainly not a good choice for you.

The source of discomfort is that navigating around applications
categories is clunky .

Let's imagine that the user clicks on a category   (even though in a
classic apps menu it's enough to hover) .

After clicking i don't immediately see the entire list of application
is that category !
The screen is cluttered with:  recent results ,  "see more N results"
 ,  and "apps available to download" .
This is like a click-click  puzzle game  with colourful  icons , not
efficient browsing .


The first version of the Unity  (the netbook remix  10.10 if i
remember correctly)   used to present the applications in a nicer way
:   there was a big list with all the applications  divided into
categories .    It required some scrolling ,  but was better than what
i see now in 12.04.  At least I could quickly form an idea about what
application are installed  !


>> Hmm...   perhaps this is what irritates me about searching/filtering
>> in the Dash :   when using these filters there is too much visual
>> noise (huge icons ,   see more 666 results  ,  apps available for
>> download )    and a particular application will never appear in the
>> same place on the screen .
>> The visual clutter gives me a constant feeling that I never know
>> what's available for use .
>
> But 99% of the time you know exactly what you want to open. You know
> you want to open firefox, or thunderbird (or e-mail application), or
> Writter, or emacs. Just time its name, it is fast and usually you'll
> get a single option after 3 or for letters.

When installing a new version of an operating system,   it's
interesting to look around and see what new applications are available
by default .

The Dash doesn't offer a comfortable solution for discovering
(browsing) what's available .
It's a fancy-looking search that requires 3D graphic acceleration ,
nothing more .


Oh,  and by the way :    when filtering for "All"  applications ,
the results don't display the categories anymore .


> Where I think the Dash fails is for people that can't really type. I
> have two children, one is 5 and the other one is 8. The one with 5
> learned to recognize the word "Game" from the old Gnome 2 menu and
> then to click on it (or hover ) to see the list of games. Now with the
> Dash he needs first to click on "Filter" (and this does not seem
> natural all for him). It would be nice to be able to have the list of
> categories always open as an option.
>
> best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
>>
>>> Now, neither piece may yet be ideal, but we should improve the design of
>>> those pieces for their specific purposes, not try to make everything do
>>> everything.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22/02/12 15:29, Adrian Maier wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 17:19, nick rundy<nrundy@xxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is having to "expand" options, like the "See more results"
>>>>> option. Too much stuff is being crammed into the dash.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, on the Applications Lens, users should be able to use
>>>>> setting
>>>>> to configure it so that it ONLY shows the applications installed on the
>>>>> machine. And by default shows ALL results. This way the user doesn't have
>>>>> to
>>>>> click so many things to get an expanded view of Applications. Also the
>>>>> filters should not have to be expanded (which I believe is the case in
>>>>> 12.04)
>>>>>
>>>>> @Adrian:
>>>>>
>>>>> if the Applications Lens defaults to show all stuff by default, then
>>>>> Unity
>>>>> is just as convenient as old-GNOME.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. tap SUPER+A
>>>>> 2. click GAMES
>>>>
>>>> That sounds like  just a workaround for solving a problem that didn't
>>>> exist before changing  something that used to work well enough  ...
>>>>
>>>> If there is a big list with all the applications ,   it implies
>>>> scrolling in order to find the category and then  finding the
>>>> application.  Too much visual noise for getting done a simple thing.
>>>>
>>>> I really mean that the right solution is to have a real classic menu /
>>>> list view .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:39:36 +0200
>>>>>> From: syraxes@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> To: unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status of
>>>>>> Unity
>>>>>> Hello people,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today I've been curious to see what is the current status of Unity
>>>>>> compared to the version shipped last year with 11.04.
>>>>>> So i've installed the Ubuntu daily beta 12.04 in a virtual machine .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main thing I would like to comment about is : navigation around
>>>>>> the available applications .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have chosen a simple task : " let's see what games are installed
>>>>>> " . Steps :
>>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
>>>>>> - looking for the word "categories" on screen. Couldn't find it.
>>>>>> Finally figured out that "Filter results" might help with my task
>>>>>> - CLICK on Filter Results
>>>>>> - CLICK on Games
>>>>>> - it displays : Aislerot Solitaire , Freecell Solitaire , Mahjongg ,
>>>>>> Mines
>>>>>> - hmm. Are there just 4 games installed ? apparently not - there
>>>>>> is a link "See 1 more result"
>>>>>> - CLICK on "see 1 more result".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The next task "now let's see what development software is installed" .
>>>>>> Steps :
>>>>>> - the screen is still showing the previous screen with the games .
>>>>>> - CLICK on Developer in "filter results"
>>>>>> - nothing changes in the search results !
>>>>>> - CLICK on Games , to deselect
>>>>>> - the Developer software finally
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Result : after 6 clicks I have been able to see what games and what
>>>>>> development tools are installed by default in 12.04 beta .
>>>>>> Too big icons , on a normal display there will always be necessary
>>>>>> to click on "see more N results".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now let's see the steps needed to do the same tasks in Ubuntu 10.04 ,
>>>>>> gnome 2 :
>>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
>>>>>> - move the mouse over "Games" . Read the list of applications.
>>>>>> - move the mouse over "Programming" . Read the list of applications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for ranting , but killing productivity for visual cuteness is
>>>>>> not progress ...
>>>>>> It should be possible to have a classical menu with applications
>>>>>> categories (maybe on right-click on the desktop).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My personal conclusion : the current Unity is just as disappointing
>>>>>> as last year.
>>>>>> Starting an application multiple times seems to be handled ok now
>>>>>> (useful particularly for terminals).
>>>>>> But there is still zero configurability (in settings ->  appearance
>>>>>> the user can only change the wallpaper and autohide the launcher .
>>>>>> Quite hilarious in a sad way ) .
>>>>>> No possibility to disable the global menu .
>>>>>> My main showstopper : no classic applications menu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>>>>>> Post to : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian M
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> Paulo José da Silva e Silva
> Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
> (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
> Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil
>
> e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web: http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva



-- 
Adrian M