unity-design team mailing list archive

["balint777@xxxxxxxxx" <balint777@xxxxxxxxx>]

Der Paulo,
Thank you for your reply. In my opinion appications on a default install
could still be distributed to named pages based on categories, but I dont
really like this idea.
Sorting applications into categories is raised by having way too much icons
in the dash, which I think is another problem. We currently have more than
5-7 icons for System settings, 4 icons for libreoffice and many other which
are not really applicatons.
For great discoverability I think we had best have only one page of
applicarions in the aplications lens, and al these special quick links
like"install drivers" sould be shown only when search is being done.
2012/6/15 pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx>

> I agree that the user should be allowed to adapt the categories.
> Actually this was already possible in gnome 2 using the right mouse
> button and editing the menu. I believe that in this case a special
> .desktop files is created overriding the original one (probably in
> ~/.local/share/apps). Maybe this still works now but a good UI is
> missing?
>
> However I do believe that is is much better to have a starting point,
> specially for discovery and exploring the system. The use case here is
> someone who doesn't know the apps in the system and want to browse
> them. The original categories can give the person a hint on the app
> function.
>
For a starting point the application icon, should be enough to decide what
an app is for (it is a Must, for th default application set).

>
> best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2012/6/14 balint777@xxxxxxxxx <balint777@xxxxxxxxx>:
> > Dear Unity design,
> > I do think categorization here is a bad idea. On which basis do we
> > categorize apps? How do we know that our predefied categories will fit
> > everyone? Take for example Thunderbird or Empathy. They could be in a
> > productivity, or a messaging category also, apart from being internet
> > related. I coud categorize based on other things like "this app is used
> > at work/home/on special occasions". I may have no games/development
> > tools installed, and dont need a games/devtools category at all.
> > I do think it is best to leave that categorization to the user. And it is
> > done best by sorting them to pages. With that concept we could still
> > pre-define categories, but let the user customize them the way he wants.
> >
> > Yours sincerelly, Bálint Csonka
> > 2012/6/14 pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >> This is a follow up from my former e-mail. Gnome shell is getting rid
> >> of application categories completely:
> >>
> >> http://worldofgnome.org/gnome-shell-gets-its-first-facelift/
> >>
> >> I hope there isn't any such plans to Unity... I'll migrate my whole
> >> family to Unity after the next upgrade.
> >>
> >> I still hope that Unity, more specifically the Application Lens, can
> >> better support browsing by categories in the future.
> >>
> >> best,
> >>
> >> Paulo
> >>
> >>
> >> 2012/6/12 pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> > I will use the opportunity to point out one of the major problems in
> >> > the Dash, IMHO. IN my home I am the only one using unity, my two sons
> >> > and my wife use Gnome and The Dash is the reason.
> >> >
> >> > Let me explain. I thin the Dash is very good to find applications and
> >> > documents by searching. It is great to type two letters and get the
> >> > application you want, much faster than using the mouse. I love it and
> >> > I have already starting using such work flow with gnome-do under the
> >> > "old" Gnome 2 days.
> >> >
> >> > Why do I use Unity and the rest of the family doesn't? The reason is
> >> > that I am very different from the rest of the family. I am computer
> >> > literate, using computers for programming since I was 10 years old (I
> >> > am 39 now). I am a computer scientist. I am a typist, so I feel very
> >> > comfortable to use the keyboard instead of the mouse. I know all the
> >> > applications that are installed in our computers, so I know what to
> >> > search easily. In short I prefer to search rather the to browse
> >> > applications.
> >> >
> >> > But my two sons are young. 9 and 5 years old. They don't use the
> >> > keyboard to type and the youngest is illiterate. For them it is much
> >> > more natural to browse the installed applications, specially the
> >> > "Games" and "Educational" section. Right now the Dash is not good for
> >> > this. First when you click it, it defaults to search. Even if you
> >> > always move to the applications lens first, the Dash does not learn
> >> > this behavior and starts again in the Home lens in the next time. It
> >> > would be nice to be able to select the default lens in dash (or make
> >> > it learn your preference, which would be much nicer).
> >> >
> >> > OK, I can teach my sons to open the application lens (I did the
> >> > similar thing in gnome shell).
> >> >
> >> > Now the next pitfall, the application lens does not show the
> >> > applications categories by default, you have to open it (and even if
> >> > you always do, the lens will forget it once you log out and we do log
> >> > out in my place where we have one computer with two heads for four
> >> > people). So there are already two clicks before they can see the
> >> > categories. Now the categories in the application lens are not
> >> > exclusive, they behave like tags. So if you look at the education
> >> > section and after that want to take a break and play a game, you have
> >> > to first "un-select" the education category and only then select
> >> > games. Once again extra clicks. Another problem that generate extra
> >> > mouse clicks is that if the desired game is not in the first row of
> >> > the installed games, you need an extra click to expand all results.
> >> > This option is also forgotten once you log out.
> >> >
> >> > I am sorry, but the above work flow is very convoluted and complicated
> >> > to explain to a five year old. Let me recall it: "Click application
> >> > lens", "Open the category browser", "Select your category (maybe you
> >> > want to un-select an old category)", "Expand results", and, finally,
> >> > find the game you want!
> >> >
> >> > I do believe that the Dash and in particular the application lens
> >> > should better accommodate browsing for applications. Here are my
> >> > specific suggestions:
> >> >
> >> > 1) The Dash should learn that you usually prefer a specific lens and
> >> > open it as default.
> >> >
> >> > 2) The application lens should have the categories open by default.
> >> >
> >> > 3) The application lens should show all the results by default if the
> >> > option to *not* show installable applications is set.
> >> >
> >> > 3.5) If it is not possible to have the defaults in 2 or 3, the
> >> > application lens should recall its state between sessions. Then I
> >> > could do a first set up for my kids and then give then a better system
> >> > for their workflow.
> >> >
> >> > 4) The categories should work exclusively to allow easier browsing. If
> >> > you are browsing it is much more likely that you are looking at a
> >> > specific category than a group of two or more.
> >> >
> >> > best,
> >> >
> >> > Paulo
> >> >
> >> > 2012/6/12 shane lee <shaneymail@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> >> I use Dash in the same way.
> >> >> Basic searching for what I want, no using of filters so the dash is
> >> >> really wasted for me.
> >> >>
> >> >> Since results from things like the video lens open up in a browser, I
> >> >> don't bother with that and just start off from the browser which is
> >> >> usually open anyway.
> >> >>
> >> >> For all it's bells and whistles, I use Dash EXACTLY the same way as I
> >> >> use KDE's Kickoff menu or the Windows start menu, both of which have
> >> >> remained unchanged for years.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 12 June 2012 09:35, Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>> On 06/12/2012 02:09 AM, Contempo wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://i47.tinypic.com/xnynw9.png
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> - The circles on the right indicate the Applications page where you
> >> >>>> are, like Android or iOs, but scroll down.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If a user really does scan more results that fit on one page, paging
> >> >>> should
> >> >>> be of advantage, as I see no reason, why seeing part of the previous
> >> >>> page
> >> >>> would help.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Though for search-based access, I suspect that somewhere above 9
> >> >>> results,
> >> >>> showing any further matches does more to crowd the screen, less to
> >> >>> help the
> >> >>> user.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> - The 3 rows of lens applications would be eliminated. ('Recent
> >> >>>> Applications' by now would have no better use than the
> left-launcher.
> >> >>>> Why 'Installed Applications' are hidden? by showing all of those
> >> >>>> icons
> >> >>>> you can get a better view of what is in the system. 'Applications
> to
> >> >>>> download' is redundant with the action that meets Ubuntu Software
> >> >>>> Center, which performs the function of recommending applications)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> - The lens Applications replace the home. (The home is divided in
> >> >>>> three rows, the most recent elements are found in the left-launcher
> >> >>>> or
> >> >>>> lenses)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> - The window control buttons removed. (The Ubuntu button opens and
> >> >>>> closes the dash, full screen always keeps your attention)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> - Categories filters removed. (More options for subdivision
> >> >>>> applications only brings more complexity, to this is the search and
> >> >>>> quick scroll with circles)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Personally, I use the Dash exclusively for search-based access to
> >> >>> files,
> >> >>> folders and applications. No switching to specific lenses, no using
> >> >>> Filters.
> >> >>> If I would want to limit results to one lense, it should be possible
> >> >>> by text
> >> >>> entry or at least with a click close to where my pointer will be
> >> >>> (which is
> >> >>> not the bottom of the Dash!).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The exception where I could see myself using Filters is for music,
> but
> >> >>> it's
> >> >>> questionable if those needs aren't better served by a specialized
> >> >>> interface.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Do others on the list use the Dash differently?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Much more important: has Canonical's user testing led to any insight
> >> >>> regarding the depth and frequency of use of the Dash's current
> >> >>> features?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Thorsten Wilms
> >> >>>
> >> >>> thorwil's design for free software:
> >> >>> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> >>> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> >> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Paulo José da Silva e Silva
> >> > Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
> >> > (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
> >> > Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil
> >> >
> >> > e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web:
> http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Paulo José da Silva e Silva
> >> Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
> >> (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
> >> Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil
> >>
> >> e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web:
> http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Csonka Bálint @913
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Paulo José da Silva e Silva
> Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
> (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
> Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil
>
> e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web: http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva
>



-- 
*Csonka Bálint* @913