dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>]

Ops sorry back-port didn't go through, fixed it now, download again in 30
min.

Lars



On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Busoye Anifalaje <busoye@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Yes, set the data elements to Zero or positive integer
> On Dec 3, 2013 7:47 AM, "Lars Helge Øverland" <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just checking, did you remember to actually set number type to
>> positive/zero or positive number?
>> On Dec 3, 2013 12:08 AM, "Adebusoye Anifalaje" <busoye@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Just tried on  Version: 2.13 Build revision: 12888. Still generating
>>> negative values! Deleted all the values from the minmaxdataelement table
>>> and ran the  min-max value generation again but negative values still
>>> coming through for some minimum numbers (example attached).
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>>
>>> Busoye
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2 Dec 2013, at 18:53, Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> the issue with negative values occurring as min-values for data elements
>>> of type positive / zero-or-positive number, and positive values occurring
>>> as max-values for data elements of type negative number have now been fixed
>>> in trunk and 2.13.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Lars
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Jason Pickering <
>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dapo.,
>>>>
>>>> This is just a design issue with DHIS2. There needs to be some better
>>>> statistical methods employed to generate the min max, or a means to specify
>>>> that the minimum should be zero for all values. There is no linkage between
>>>> the value type and the method which the mix-max uses to generate its
>>>> values. In our case, we use a combination of R and SQL to calculate
>>>> "better" values on a regular basis. A bit of  a hack, but the current
>>>> methods are simply not working for us either.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Adebusoye Anifalaje <busoye@xxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> To introduce a variation on this theme of generating min-max values: I
>>>>> expected that if you set data element number type to Zero of Positive
>>>>> Integer this should alter the distribution (in this case skew to the right
>>>>> as Jason put it) and avoid the negative minimum values. From the tests I
>>>>> have done, this is not happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> The negative mim values are a real pain, anyone with a solution yet?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Busoye
>>>>>
>>>>> On 31 May 2013, at 14:53, Gulam Khan <gm-khan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dapo,
>>>>> If you were to generate the min-max values automatically, insert them
>>>>> into the database, and an authorized user was to change them, then they
>>>>> would be overwritten.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can automatically generate these values through the data
>>>>> administration module by dataset and orgunit in Data
>>>>> Administration->Min-Max Value Generation . The problem is you often end up
>>>>> with a lot of dubious values, such as negative numbers. This is a result of
>>>>> the Gaussian distribution model which is applied (without taking any
>>>>> skewness into effect). I have attached a plot from a real DHIS2 database,
>>>>> which show sthat the distribution of many in DHIS2 are skewed left or right
>>>>> (more often to the right) . Use of an unbounded, normal distribution for
>>>>> calculation of the min-max is therefore not really appropriate. The
>>>>> standard deviation approach is also highly sensitive to outliers, which
>>>>> also creates problems for the outlier analysis if this approach is used.
>>>>> Anyway, I digress. Just wanted to highlight that the in-built functions for
>>>>> calculation of the min-max are rather primitive, and may not always lead to
>>>>> good results.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not so sure about the ability to restrict the time periods for
>>>>> which the mix-max is generated. I think you would end up with far too few
>>>>> data points to make a meaningful standard deviation. You are really looking
>>>>> for the extremes with the min-max, and restricting to such a a narrow time
>>>>> interval would probably not give you these extremes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Dapo Adejumo <dapo_adejumo@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It will be great if the generation of min-max values can be automated
>>>>>> based on a global setting ( ability to select last 3,6 or 12 months data) .
>>>>>> I am curious what happens to these “hard coded” min/max values when the
>>>>>> database is set to generate min/max values from the frontend – I will
>>>>>> assume they are discarded since they reside in the same table? Or which
>>>>>> takes precedence ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ................................................
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Regards,*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Dapo Adejumo*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *+234803363677*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *skype : dapojorge*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Dhis2-devs [mailto:dhis2-devs-bounces+dapo_adejumo=
>>>>>> yahoo.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jason Pickering
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:28 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Juma Lungo
>>>>>> *Cc:* dhis2-devs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Dhis2-devs] Setting MinMax Values
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I agree with Lars as well. Our use case was we wanted to
>>>>>> restrict values between 0 and 31, and not do it with a validation rule, to
>>>>>> provide visual clues during data entry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an aside, one may also want to calculate these values and save
>>>>>> them to the database. The current algorithm uses a standard deviation
>>>>>> approach, which is problematic, in that in many cases the data which is
>>>>>> typically observed does not follow a normal Gaussian distribution. Other
>>>>>> statistical models often provide better estimates of the mix/max, but
>>>>>> currently, cannot be calculated automatically by the system. If these
>>>>>> values are calculated externally in some statistical package, they can be
>>>>>> inserted back into the system (or even automated).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Juma Lungo <jlungo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Lars
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lungo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Lars Helge Øverland <larshelge@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> *To:* Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> *Cc:* dhis2-devs <dhis2-devs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:43 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Dhis2-devs] Setting MinMax Values
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Conrad,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the min-max data element is per org unit and data element like you
>>>>>> say, so it applies to all current and future periods by definition. I don't
>>>>>> know your use-case... but in general one might want to think twice before
>>>>>> setting the same max value for all facilities, since they usually have very
>>>>>> different catchment population and hence natural variations in numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <skewness.png>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>