dhis2-users team mailing list archive

[Johannes Schnitzler <schnitzlerj@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Jason,

Thank you for the reply.
It can be calculated; Start on Wednesday, if at least one day of a given
week is in the "new Year" the week is regarded to belong to the "new Year".

In addition there have been libraries for Java mentioned in the past which
could handle quite a bit of the necessary calculations.
Adding the possibility to define in addition "custom" periods would handle
all.

The question remains how the analysis for weekly data would work then.

If i'm not mistaken at this point in time the period table stores just the
from/to dates and the type of period e.g. 2 for weekly. The information
about actual week number and the corresponding Year is not stored in the
periods table.

Best regards,

Johannes



On 30 June 2013 09:38, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Johannes,
> If you can define the method which Cambodian weeks are generated, they
> could be implemented. Look at the other period classes, and you can see it
> is not that difficult, IF, there is some algorithm to actually generate
> them (which of course is the case for ISO weeks). Are you sure it is
> possible? In some calendric systems, intervals are not always so straight
> forward to define, and there  are "experts" which decide what the months or
> other intervals may actually be.
>
> I think having set of period classes for "User predefined periods" might
> solve a lot of these issues. Right now, the period classes and methods are
> used to algorithmically generate the start/end dates. What about if we just
> pre-created them and injected say 10 years work of them into the "period"
> table? Then DHIS2 would not have to worry about generating them, but would
> of course not be able to generate them for periods outside of the periods
> which already exist?
>
> This might solve the issue we have with Nepali months as well, or other
> intervals which are for which no algorithm exists to derive future and past
> intervals, but which can be mapped onto the Gregorian calendar. Lars? Bob?
> Comments?
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Wilson,Randy <rwilson@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>  Hi Johannes,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I’m not sure how DHIS-2 automatically creates the entries in the period
>> table, but once they are created would one of the following options work?
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> **·         **Pre-fill the period tables with weekly records for several
>> years forward, then hack the period table to reset the start/end dates for
>> weekly periods using an update query – adding or subtracting days depending
>> upon when you want the start day.****
>>
>> **·         **Create a period translation table (periodid, newstartdate,
>> newenddate) that you can link to the datavalue table and produce your
>> analyses according to the desired time frames.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> In Rwanda we end up doing a lot of our analyses with custom SQL queries
>> so option 2 would probably work for us – though users would have to be told
>> to disregard the start date displayed during data entry – and focus on the
>> week number.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Randy****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* Dhis2-users [mailto:dhis2-users-bounces+rwilson=
>> msh.org@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Johannes Schnitzler
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 28, 2013 10:54 PM
>> *To:* Knut Staring
>> *Cc:* dhis2-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Ola Hodne Titlestad
>> *Subject:* Re: [Dhis2-users] Define week start day for Weekly periods****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Dear All,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Is there anything which can be done in the near future to accommodate a
>> week configuration (start day of the week and rule which week belongs to
>> the new year)?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> It would be good to have a generic approach:****
>>
>> Either allowing to define this in the set up of DHIS or to even allow it
>> on a data set level which would open the possibility to use one DHIS
>> installation by several  countries.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If a generic approach is not feasible, would there be the possibility to
>> define the dates and corresponding Year-Weeks in a table including
>> dates/Year-Weeks in the future; allowing to select the correct week during
>> data entry? How could this be handled in the analysis / how are week
>> currently handled in the analysis?. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Otherwise this might be a showstopper for the use of DHIS.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thank you!****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Johannes****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 17 June 2013 09:57, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Thanks Jim - Joda-Time certainly looks like a good candidate for
>> non-ISO8601 calendar support, though I see this blog mention additional
>> work needed for Nepal:****
>>
>>
>> http://forjavaprogrammers.blogspot.com/2012/06/how-to-convert-nepali-date-to-english.html
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Still, it may be possible to come up with a simpler workaround for
>> Johannes' problem which is limited to just weeks - perhaps most of the
>> issues could there could be handled by relabeling the current ISO weeks?*
>> ***
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Knut****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Jim Grace <jimgrace@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:***
>> *
>>
>> I haven't use it yet, but Joda-Time looks impressive at first glance.
>> They claim it's "the de facto standard library for advanced date and time
>> in Java" and "The Gregorian, Julian, Buddhist, Coptic, Ethiopic and Islamic
>> systems are also included" (besides the default ISO8601).
>> http://joda.sourceforge.net/****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Cheers,****
>>
>> Jim****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Jun 17, 2013, at 12:21 AM, Johannes Schnitzler <schnitzlerj@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Dear All,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Coming back to the possibility to define the different "type of weeks" in
>> the setting.****
>>
>> Does anyone know a library in Java handling this easily? ****
>>
>> In case this will not be addressed soon in the next versions. What would
>> be the workaround for a given scenario/country - has anyone addressed this
>> already?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Best regards,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Johannes****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 15 June 2013 18:18, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> I'm not sure it is important to aggregate along the time dimension for
>> weekly data. But it is important to do so spatially, ie upwards in the
>> hierarchy. ****
>>
>> Sent from my mobile****
>>
>> On Jun 15, 2013 11:36 AM, "Bob Jolliffe" <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:**
>> **
>>
>> Aggregating from weeks to months will always be approximate so these
>> anomalies will happen. Maybe some clever pro-rata scaling can be done.***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 15 June 2013 10:39, Ola Hodne Titlestad <olati@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Not very related, but one issue with weeks that came up in Uganda
>> recently is that monthly aggregates of the reporting rates of weekly
>> datasets got above 100% for months with 5 weeks. Seems the aggregation code
>> here assumes 4 weeks per month throughout the year and with 5 weeks of
>> reported datasets for some months the reporting rate got too high.****
>>
>> Ola
>> ------****
>>
>> On 15 Jun 2013 11:24, "John Lewis" <johnlewis.hisp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Defining week start and end date is quite complicated. I had the same
>> issue in bangladesh. The point also how do we aggregate it to month.
>> Technically we break the data of a week which fall in two month, which is
>> not a good idea.
>> Instead of rewriting.entire aggregation engine would it better to define
>> as daily data set. Since we collect data once a week we can use daily data
>> set and modify data enter screen to show weekly end date.****
>>
>> On 15 Jun 2013 03:40, "Johannes Schnitzler" <schnitzlerj@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Dear All,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> How I have solved the issue in another application, also used for
>> Cambodia, is that I'm allowing to define the start day of the week e.g.
>> Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday .... as well as how many days "touching the new
>> year" are needed to qualify a week to be counted as week 1 of the new year.
>> This is part of the setting of the application and is used to calculate it
>> on the fly e.g. for data entry date / week selection. I have written the
>> code for this in R  (bad code... but it is working). This allows to deal
>> with a lot of countries. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> For ISO it is 4 days to qualify for the new year and the start day
>> depends on the country, ****
>>
>> For Cambodia it is 1 day and start day is Wednesday.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> As in DHIS I'm storing the period type daily weekly monthly ....****
>>
>> And for the actual date I'm storing always start date, end date of the
>> period and in addition the Year and the TIme unit..****
>>
>> For weekly data: start date, end date, Week Number, Year of the week
>> (which might be of course be different from the Year of the first day of
>> the week for the first and last week of the year).****
>>
>> For daily data: start date, end date (which is of course the same), day
>> number  in year, Year ****
>>
>> For monthly data: start date, end date, month number, Year ****
>>
>> ....****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> In this case one has all freedom to combine data sets from different
>> "week definitions" as one can decide later on which week calculation to be
>> applied across the piece based on the start date of the week knowing that
>> the week counting might be off for some of the countries for a few days.
>> But this is the best what we can do I assume ...****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Best regards,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Johannes****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 14 June 2013 19:08, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Will have to investigate and get back to you ****
>>
>> Sent from my mobile****
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2013 6:06 PM, "Bob Jolliffe" <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:***
>> *
>>
>> how do they determine which day is day 1 of week 1?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 14 June 2013 17:52, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> For my purposes, that's really all I know, and for my requirements it
>> will be exactly parallel to countries that require Monday instead of Sunday.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> But certainly the Nepali, Ethiopian and several others have more complex
>> requirements, which I think partly must be treated as separate cases.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Explain the Cambodian calendar a bit more.  I am sure there is more to it
>> than when the weeks start.  Or is that it?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 14 June 2013 17:35, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Thanks Jason and Bob.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Unfortunately, this seems to be a pressing requirement in several
>> countries****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I think one simplification that could be justified would be to have only
>> one week type in one DHIS2 instance. Thus, the exact meaning of 2012W25 is
>> defined by looking at the FIRSTDAYOFWEEK setting in the particular db
>> (which probably should be displayed on the About DHIS 2 page.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Of course, that does not solve interoperability issues (but rather it
>> deteriorate through obfuscation), but I think it is reasonable to think
>> that everyone in Cambodia uses weeks starting on Wednesdays.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 5:29 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> Weeks are as we all know something of a headache.  What we have defined
>> currently in DHIS2, as Jason points out, is the ISO standard week, which
>> even itself is something of a headache.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I suspect that to incorporate all the variety which is called for
>> (Wednesday week starts is the most exotic I've seen to date!  But there are
>> also Islamic calendar issues, Ethiopian/Amharic calendar, Monday vs Sunday
>> starts etc)  we might need to zoom right out to define a generic repeating
>> period with rules around starting and stopping.  But it could get quite
>> complicated.  Two immediate issues which come to mind****
>>
>> (i) we need a string representation of periods.  So 2010W23 has a
>> particular meaning in terms of the ISO week number.  How to differentiate
>> this from a week which starts on a Wednesday (and which day of the year
>> would be day 1 of week 1?);****
>>
>> (ii) how to aggregate along the time axis ie, weeks->months->years****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Its something which needs to be done, but I am not at all clear what the
>> correct design approach would be.  Would be interested to hear people's
>> thoughts.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Bob****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On 14 June 2013 17:12, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Devs: Is this something which could be targeted for 2.13?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Knut****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Jason Pickering <
>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>> Currently not. This has come up before, but for now, ISO weeks are what
>> has been implemented. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_week_date****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>> Jason****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Paulo Grácio <
>> pgracio@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:****
>>
>>  Hi, ****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Is there a way to define week start day for Weekly periods?****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> Regards,****
>>
>> Paulo Grácio****
>>
>> ** **
>>
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>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Knut Staring****
>>
>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo****
>>
>> +4791880522****
>>
>> http://dhis2.org ****
>>
>>
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>> ** **
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Knut Staring****
>>
>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo****
>>
>> +4791880522****
>>
>> http://dhis2.org ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Knut Staring****
>>
>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo****
>>
>> +4791880522****
>>
>> http://dhis2.org ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
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>> ** **
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>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Knut Staring****
>>
>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo****
>>
>> +4791880522****
>>
>> http://dhis2.org ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
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