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Re: "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted
IMHO, Sergey tried to kill a rabbit (no pun intented) and shot other. (I
think this only make sense in Portuguese...) When we started discussing
the web page mockup we stumbled upon a more important issue: the
decision-make process of elementary.
I don't think is doable everybody voting things up. But I, IMHO, think
we should have a more representative council. When we make a decision,
we should have input from all the teams: the developers, designers,
community representats and even translators. We, not only as elementary,
but as Linux are a Community. If we start to do things as a strict
hierarchy we'll lose the spirit of Linux.
Even quietly, I ever hated this "it's a secret" thing that the Council
likes to do. Why the Council has to do things so secretly? Why important
things like Kickstarter have to be done in a dark room with no one
around? Should't we be a community where everybody is a important part
of the process? Really, I'm not saying we should have input from every
single member of elementary Community, but we should do things more
clearly. With the teams we have a group of members that discuss how the
things will be done, and a manager of the team that has the final say.
Why couldn't the Council be like that? With a representative of all
teams, and Dan as the "good dictator"?
We, as elementary, aren't following the Linux. Not the "free as free
beer" aspect, but the openess aspect. We should do things as a whole
group, not as a all mighty council and a bunch of lackeys that have to
I think Sergey is right. We, as developers, designers, translators or
simply users, should have a voice in elementary decision make process.
And every single step we take should be in a clear and open environment,
where anyone could follow the process and where no secrets exist. I only
follow this elementary community and Ubuntu community, but Ubuntu guys
really show the things they do. You can see every step of every project
they make, and no secrets or dark-room-decisions are allowed.
As a FOSS community, we know that things don't fall from heaven. We have
to eat, pay the taxes and take care of our families. But when we take a
role in a FOSS community we are dedicating our free time to it. Payrolls
don't matter, but how can we dedicate a part of our lives to a project
we don't even know what direction it goes to? In my humble opinion as
just a user and member of elementary Community, this, and not donations
or web pages, is asking to much from us.
Em 03-07-2012 16:07, Cassidy James escreveu:
> A decision that affects developers greatly was made without them
even knowing, left alone being able to influence the decision.
To be honest, the exact details of how we present the iso download on
our front page doesn't greatly effect developers. elementary is and
always has been open source; by its very nature that means its freely
available to all. Design decisions and decisions on how to bring money
in to pay for our expenses don't and should not have to be run by
every developer. This is the reason for having a small Council who can
make those decisions.
> Is that the intended decision-making process or a mistake from which
the Council is willing to learn is what I'd like to know
Again, there's a reason we have a small Council who is able to make
organizational, design, and monetary decisions. It is not intended to
run every single decision past ?????? ??????? before making it.
Obviously we're always open to learning; if the home page design
doesn't work out, of course we'll consider alternatives.
If you or anyone else has any further specific issues you'd like to
raise, the Council is reachable at council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>. Give a little bit of time for a
response if you do mail us there; as Daniel mentioned, we're busy both
with and outside of elementary. But we do try and respond to any mails
at one point or another.
On Jul 3, 2012 1:07 PM, "Daniel Foré" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and
responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not
always able to meet every week and discuss every issue.
In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not
something that needs to be run through you first for approval. But
I'd be interested to find out from other people why they think we
need to directly democratize our web design or any design for that
If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a
certain time schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for
you. You may not be aware, but this week celebrates our
independence in the US. So there's a lot of family flooding in and
I'm super busy juggling my very extended family. I can guarantee I
won't be able to make the meeting again this Saturday because it's
also my mother's birthday.
I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor
any ill will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, ?????? ??????? <shnatsel@xxxxxxxxx
Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to
settle on something and write a reply.
To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything
right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an
answer to my
Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
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