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Re: "I'm Quitting": we both overreacted


IMHO, Sergey tried to kill a rabbit (no pun intented) and shot other. (I think this only make sense in Portuguese...) When we started discussing the web page mockup we stumbled upon a more important issue: the decision-make process of elementary.

I don't think is doable everybody voting things up. But I, IMHO, think we should have a more representative council. When we make a decision, we should have input from all the teams: the developers, designers, community representats and even translators. We, not only as elementary, but as Linux are a Community. If we start to do things as a strict hierarchy we'll lose the spirit of Linux.

Even quietly, I ever hated this "it's a secret" thing that the Council likes to do. Why the Council has to do things so secretly? Why important things like Kickstarter have to be done in a dark room with no one around? Should't we be a community where everybody is a important part of the process? Really, I'm not saying we should have input from every single member of elementary Community, but we should do things more clearly. With the teams we have a group of members that discuss how the things will be done, and a manager of the team that has the final say. Why couldn't the Council be like that? With a representative of all teams, and Dan as the "good dictator"?

We, as elementary, aren't following the Linux. Not the "free as free beer" aspect, but the openess aspect. We should do things as a whole group, not as a all mighty council and a bunch of lackeys that have to follow orders.

I think Sergey is right. We, as developers, designers, translators or simply users, should have a voice in elementary decision make process. And every single step we take should be in a clear and open environment, where anyone could follow the process and where no secrets exist. I only follow this elementary community and Ubuntu community, but Ubuntu guys really show the things they do. You can see every step of every project they make, and no secrets or dark-room-decisions are allowed.

As a FOSS community, we know that things don't fall from heaven. We have to eat, pay the taxes and take care of our families. But when we take a role in a FOSS community we are dedicating our free time to it. Payrolls don't matter, but how can we dedicate a part of our lives to a project we don't even know what direction it goes to? In my humble opinion as just a user and member of elementary Community, this, and not donations or web pages, is asking to much from us.

Andre Santos

Em 03-07-2012 16:07, Cassidy James escreveu:

> A decision that affects developers greatly was made without them even knowing, left alone being able to influence the decision.

To be honest, the exact details of how we present the iso download on our front page doesn't greatly effect developers. elementary is and always has been open source; by its very nature that means its freely available to all. Design decisions and decisions on how to bring money in to pay for our expenses don't and should not have to be run by every developer. This is the reason for having a small Council who can make those decisions.

> Is that the intended decision-making process or a mistake from which the Council is willing to learn is what I'd like to know

Again, there's a reason we have a small Council who is able to make organizational, design, and monetary decisions. It is not intended to run every single decision past ?????? ??????? before making it. Obviously we're always open to learning; if the home page design doesn't work out, of course we'll consider alternatives.

If you or anyone else has any further specific issues you'd like to raise, the Council is reachable at council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>. Give a little bit of time for a response if you do mail us there; as Daniel mentioned, we're busy both with and outside of elementary. But we do try and respond to any mails at one point or another.

Cassidy James

On Jul 3, 2012 1:07 PM, "Daniel Foré" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and
    responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not
    always able to meet every week and discuss every issue.

    In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not
    something that needs to be run through you first for approval. But
    I'd be interested to find out from other people why they think we
    need to directly democratize our web design or any design for that

    If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a
    certain time schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for
    you. You may not be aware, but this week celebrates our
    independence in the US. So there's a lot of family flooding in and
    I'm super busy juggling my very extended family. I can guarantee I
    won't be able to make the meeting again this Saturday because it's
    also my mother's birthday.

    I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor
    any ill will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any

    On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, ?????? ??????? <shnatsel@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:shnatsel@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

        Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
        taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to
        settle on something and write a reply.

        To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything
        is all
        right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an
        answer to my

        Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff

-- Best Regards,

    Daniel Foré

    elementaryos.org <http://elementaryos.org>

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