elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx>]

Given the novelty of TDD to many of elementary's developers, I think it
might be useful to decouple TDD concepts from any particular framework.
With that in mind, I think we should consider teaching TDD fundamentals
with either no framework or one that has an insignificant learning curve.
I'm considering writing a blog post introducing TDD in this way. Thoughts?
On Apr 29, 2013 8:26 AM, "Jaap Broekhuizen" <jaapz.b@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Interesting, I added your repo to the doc if you don't mind :)
>
> Met vriendelijke groet,
>
> Jaap Broekhuizen
>
> Aquamarijnstraat 273
> 9743 PG  Groningen
>
> jaap.broekhuizen.nu
> jaapz.b@xxxxxxxxx
> 06 - 39 81 36 97
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Dane Henson <dane@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Thanks for setting up that document.  I've already added a few things and
>> commented a bit.  I have been toying with GTest (GLib.Test) a bit, but
>> haven't been substantially impressed by it yet.  You can see my noodling
>> with it at lp:~thegreatdane/+junk/agenda-tests<https://code.launchpad.net/~thegreatdane/+junk/agenda-tests>.
>>  It's not much, but it might give someone an idea of how to set up cmake
>> for this sort of thing.  That's what took me the longest and it's probably
>> still wrong, but it works :P.
>>
>> The code being tested is trivial, just something to play with based on an
>> idea I had for agenda, so don't be overly critical please.
>>
>> mkdir build; cd build
>> cmake ..
>> make
>> make test
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:26 AM, Jaap Broekhuizen <jaapz.b@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> Pal, that looks very interesting, please do upload it to launchpad so we
>>> can have a closer look :)
>>>
>>> In te mean time, I have created a google document to have a central
>>> point of investigation for elementary automated testing. Feel free to add
>>> information to the doc whenever you can, but please keep it clean! :) You
>>> can find it here:
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cTsWpeT0h4FD81T-xs4bEWlALsO__j3rL1A7iB-SWz0/edit
>>>
>>> I haven't found any BDD frameworks yet, but I have found some
>>> interesting testing frameworks.
>>>
>>> I think I'll set up a testing branch for granite some day later this
>>> week, maybe test out the different frameworks so we can see what suits us
>>> best. If anyone else wants to start setting up a branch like that, you are
>>> of course free to do so ;)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jaap
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 3:08 AM, Pál Dorogi <pal.dorogi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> You can use cmake for unit test as it supports GLib's test. I use
>>>> MonoDevelop/Xamarin Studio for developing for huge projects coexists
>>>> /w cmake (as MD/XS does not support cmake). MD is for rapid
>>>> development but there is no internal Unit to support vala but C#
>>>> (Nunit) and some other languages. So, I run some cmake command before
>>>> and after MD build which runs cmake for cmake build and run test. For
>>>> example:
>>>>
>>>> before build: cmake .. in /build/ dir
>>>> after build in MD: run build/test/unit_test
>>>>
>>>> I added CMakeLists.txt into my MD project and I just need to sync
>>>> betwwen MD and that file when I add or remove a Vala source file
>>>> into/from the MD.
>>>>
>>>> I do not know how would it works /w launchpad as I do not know how its
>>>> packaging works /w cmake's unit test, but I think it should work.
>>>> You just need add some stanza in the project's root CMakeList.txt like
>>>> this, but it's not simpe as it's using some other features like
>>>> external projects and so on.
>>>> set (PROJECT_TEST tests)
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>> enable_testing (true)
>>>> add_subdirectory (${PROJECT_TEST})
>>>>
>>>> and add create some CMakeList.txt in the ./test dir
>>>>
>>>> ###############################################################################
>>>> # Sources
>>>>
>>>> ###############################################################################
>>>> set (UNIT_TESTS unit_tests)
>>>>
>>>> set (VALA_SOURCES
>>>> Model/Address.vala
>>>> Model/Person.vala
>>>> Model/Gender.vala
>>>> ValidatorTest.vala
>>>>     TestMain.vala
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> set (PKG_DEPS gtk+-3.0 glib-2.0 gee-1.0)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ################################################################################
>>>> # set (CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE ON)
>>>> set (CMAKE_FIND_LIBRARY_SUFFIXES .so)
>>>>
>>>> # External Packages definitions.
>>>> set (EXTERN_PROJ dafunit)
>>>> set (EXTERN_SOURCE_DIR src)
>>>>
>>>> set (INTERN_PROJ dafvalidation)
>>>> set (INTERN_SOURCE_DIR ${PROJECT_SOURCE})
>>>>
>>>> include (ExternalProject)
>>>>
>>>> ExternalProject_Add (${EXTERN_PROJ}
>>>>     #PREFIX ../../${EXTERN_PROJ}
>>>>     SOURCE_DIR ../../../${EXTERN_PROJ}
>>>>     BINARY_DIR ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/${EXTERN_PROJ}/build
>>>>     INSTALL_DIR ""
>>>>     UPDATE_COMMAND ""
>>>>     PATCH_COMMAND ""
>>>>     INSTALL_COMMAND ""
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> ExternalProject_Get_Property(${EXTERN_PROJ} BINARY_DIR)
>>>> include_directories (${BINARY_DIR}/${EXTERN_SOURCE_DIR})
>>>> include_directories (${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/${INTERN_SOURCE_DIR})
>>>>
>>>> # PkgConfig
>>>> find_package (PkgConfig)
>>>> find_package (GObjectIntrospection 0.9.12)
>>>> include (GObjectIntrospectionMacros)
>>>>
>>>> pkg_check_modules(DEPS REQUIRED ${PKG_DEPS})
>>>>
>>>> set (CFLAGS ${DEPS_CFLAGS} ${DEPS_CFLAGS_OTHER})
>>>> add_definitions (${CFLAGS})
>>>> set (LIBS ${DEPS_LIBRARIES})
>>>> set(LIB_PATHS ${DEPS_LIBRARY_DIRS})
>>>> link_directories(${LIB_PATHS})
>>>>
>>>> # Does not work set (ENV{PKG_CONFIG_PATH} ${EXTERNAL_BINARY_DIR}/src)
>>>> vala_precompile (VALA_C
>>>> ${VALA_SOURCES}
>>>> PACKAGES
>>>> ${PKG_DEPS}
>>>>     posix
>>>> CUSTOM_VAPIS
>>>>     ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/${INTERN_SOURCE_DIR}/${INTERN_PROJ}.vapi
>>>> ${BINARY_DIR}/${EXTERN_SOURCE_DIR}/${EXTERN_PROJ}.vapi
>>>> OPTIONS
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> add_executable (${UNIT_TESTS} ${VALA_C})
>>>>
>>>> # Does not work add_dependencies (unit_tests dafvalidation)
>>>>
>>>> target_link_libraries(${UNIT_TESTS} ${LIBS})
>>>> target_link_libraries(${UNIT_TESTS}
>>>>
>>>> ${BINARY_DIR}/${EXTERN_SOURCE_DIR}/${CMAKE_FIND_LIBRARY_PREFIXES}${EXTERN_PROJ}${CMAKE_FIND_LIBRARY_SUFFIXES})
>>>> target_link_libraries(${UNIT_TESTS}
>>>>
>>>> ${CMAKE_BINARY_DIR}/${INTERN_SOURCE_DIR}/${CMAKE_FIND_LIBRARY_PREFIXES}${INTERN_PROJ}${CMAKE_FIND_LIBRARY_SUFFIXES})
>>>> add_test(${UNIT_TESTS} ${CMAKE_CURRENT_BINARY_DIR}/${UNIT_TESTS})
>>>> ###################################################
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am going to upload it to lp so, if you would like to have a look at
>>>> it just let me know and that case I will uploadid it on some day in
>>>> this week
>>>>
>>>> On 29 April 2013 07:19, Lochlan Bunn <loklaan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> > I have read alot about TTD, both in school and in persistent
>>>> articles. I've
>>>> > used it to develop a small gui based game, and I can say that I liked
>>>> the
>>>> > flow once I was used to it. I used JUnit & Eclipse, and that was all
>>>> that
>>>> > was needed the whole time.
>>>> >
>>>> > So when it comes to elementary dev, and vala/gtk/linux dev in
>>>> general, I'd
>>>> > be interested in reading/learning how to write unit test (suites) for
>>>> vala
>>>> > in respects to both CI, a la Launchpad, packaging, and moreso in an
>>>> IDE.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On 27 April 2013 07:48, Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I agree wholeheartedly. And as Cassidy mentioned, we can use scratch
>>>> as
>>>> >> the incubation project.  Would any devs be interested in
>>>> volunteering to
>>>> >> learn? Jaap, would you be interested in helping instruct?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Apr 26, 2013 3:25 PM, "Jaap Broekhuizen" <jaapz.b@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I also think implementing Behavorial testing (applying BDD) is very
>>>> >>> relevant for us, as we are focussing a lot on user interface and
>>>> >>> interaction.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So imo we should start on a project which we can use as a
>>>> playground for
>>>> >>> both unit an behavorial testing.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Does anyone know of good vala bdd frameworks?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Jaap
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Op 26 apr. 2013 22:21 schreef "Cassidy James" <
>>>> cassidy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >>> het volgende:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I don't think we need any convincing; everything I've heard from
>>>> the
>>>> >>>> devs is that we need to do this. It's just a matter of figuring
>>>> out a common
>>>> >>>> way of doing it.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Craig, a relatively small/new project that could use testing is
>>>> the new
>>>> >>>> Scratch or even the new work going on with Contractor. Both are
>>>> (from what I
>>>> >>>> understand) fresh codebases and now might be the time to work  on
>>>> tests. I
>>>> >>>> recommend you hop into #elementary-dev and work with the devs on
>>>> getting
>>>> >>>> some tests worked out.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Regards,
>>>> >>>> Cassidy
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Apr 26, 2013 11:04 AM, "Pál Dorogi" <pal.dorogi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I dunno, I am a newbie here.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> On 26 April 2013 22:24, Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> > That's exactly what I'd like to know: how can I help. I can try
>>>> and
>>>> >>>>> > post
>>>> >>>>> > some tutorials, but I'd like to know who is interested and what
>>>> the
>>>> >>>>> > development community already knows.
>>>> >>>>> >
>>>> >>>>> > On Apr 26, 2013 6:39 AM, "Pál Dorogi" <pal.dorogi@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> >> Hi Craig,
>>>> >>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> >> I agree 100% /w you, but I think you should write some
>>>> tutorials and
>>>> >>>>> >> post them in your blog, if you have any. But in my opinion
>>>> that the
>>>> >>>>> >> human beings do not like "re-learn" things and the real OOP,
>>>> Design
>>>> >>>>> >> Patterns, SOLID, TDD etc. etc. are very steep and time for a
>>>> >>>>> >> non-real
>>>> >>>>> >> OOP/DP experienced Programmer/Developer.
>>>> >>>>> >> Also, the learning curve is very steep for these advanced
>>>> stuffs and
>>>> >>>>> >> needs long time to get there. But, nobody would not know how
>>>> good
>>>> >>>>> >> are
>>>> >>>>> >> they until haven't learnt and used those stuffs, would they?.:)
>>>> >>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> >> I did sine similar things, getting some new fresh things (TDD,
>>>> >>>>> >> MvvM/Presentation Model Design Pattern) to programming in Vala
>>>> >>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> >> ((
>>>> http://ilapstech.blogspot.com/2013/04/advanced-programming-in-vala-dafs.html
>>>> )
>>>> >>>>> >> but you should keep in mind that this kind of new things (TDD,
>>>> DP,
>>>> >>>>> >> SOLDI, MVVM etc. etc.) are like evolution (evolution in
>>>> Programming)
>>>> >>>>> >> which needs some time to get it succeeded (or failed).:)
>>>> >>>>> >>
>>>> >>>>> >> On 26 April 2013 20:36, Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> >> > Hello everyone,
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > I'm just leaving San Jose after having spent a week
>>>> listening to a
>>>> >>>>> >> > lot
>>>> >>>>> >> > of
>>>> >>>>> >> > smart people talk about, among other things, Test Driven
>>>> >>>>> >> > Development
>>>> >>>>> >> > (TDD).
>>>> >>>>> >> > I know I keep harping on this, but among the people who
>>>> write the
>>>> >>>>> >> > coolest,
>>>> >>>>> >> > best software (and other average software folks) TDD is seen
>>>> as
>>>> >>>>> >> > absolutely
>>>> >>>>> >> > critical. I can't point to anything other discipline in the
>>>> >>>>> >> > software
>>>> >>>>> >> > world
>>>> >>>>> >> > that is of comparable importance. And here's why:
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > When we start writing software, we can manage it with a
>>>> couple of
>>>> >>>>> >> > developers, perhaps all the way up through the first release;
>>>> >>>>> >> > however,
>>>> >>>>> >> > as we
>>>> >>>>> >> > add features, our software becomes more complex. It's hard
>>>> for us
>>>> >>>>> >> > to
>>>> >>>>> >> > remember what parts of our programs worked well before and
>>>> what
>>>> >>>>> >> > parts
>>>> >>>>> >> > are
>>>> >>>>> >> > broken. We often make changes to the underlying architecture
>>>> to
>>>> >>>>> >> > facilitate a
>>>> >>>>> >> > new feature, but we're not exactly sure if in doing so, we
>>>> broke
>>>> >>>>> >> > an
>>>> >>>>> >> > existing
>>>> >>>>> >> > feature. And we'll of course do a little ad hoc manual
>>>> testing to
>>>> >>>>> >> > verify
>>>> >>>>> >> > that things still work, but we're only going to really check
>>>> 5-10%
>>>> >>>>> >> > of
>>>> >>>>> >> > the
>>>> >>>>> >> > code that we most suspect would break. And even if we do
>>>> power
>>>> >>>>> >> > through,
>>>> >>>>> >> > we're only going to ever check 60-70% of the code, and it's
>>>> all a
>>>> >>>>> >> > very
>>>> >>>>> >> > slow,
>>>> >>>>> >> > unreliable process. Soon we spend all of our time fighting
>>>> bugs
>>>> >>>>> >> > and we
>>>> >>>>> >> > can
>>>> >>>>> >> > never get around to any interesting work. Does this pattern
>>>> sound
>>>> >>>>> >> > familiar?
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > With TDD, you write a simple, small test for every piece of
>>>> >>>>> >> > interesting
>>>> >>>>> >> > code
>>>> >>>>> >> > you write, and every time you rebuild the project, all of
>>>> your old
>>>> >>>>> >> > tests
>>>> >>>>> >> > run. If you're writing good tests, you can be assured that
>>>> all of
>>>> >>>>> >> > your
>>>> >>>>> >> > code
>>>> >>>>> >> > works as you intend it to every single time you build, and if
>>>> >>>>> >> > someone
>>>> >>>>> >> > merges
>>>> >>>>> >> > in a bug, it will be caught immediately (and the test that
>>>> fails
>>>> >>>>> >> > will
>>>> >>>>> >> > give
>>>> >>>>> >> > you some good information about what broke/where the bug is
>>>> >>>>> >> > hiding).
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > Of course, it takes time to write tests; however, it's still
>>>> much
>>>> >>>>> >> > less
>>>> >>>>> >> > time
>>>> >>>>> >> > than you would spend debugging your code. Furthermore, when
>>>> you
>>>> >>>>> >> > write
>>>> >>>>> >> > tests
>>>> >>>>> >> > before you write your production code, you are forced to
>>>> design
>>>> >>>>> >> > your
>>>> >>>>> >> > code
>>>> >>>>> >> > modularly just to make it testable. Among software
>>>> professionals,
>>>> >>>>> >> > TDD is
>>>> >>>>> >> > seen as the fastest way to write software. I mean, Luna has
>>>> been
>>>> >>>>> >> > 90%
>>>> >>>>> >> > complete for 90% of its development cycle, and this is a
>>>> common
>>>> >>>>> >> > pattern
>>>> >>>>> >> > in
>>>> >>>>> >> > the software world.
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > With all of this in mind, I'd like to know how I can help
>>>> you guys
>>>> >>>>> >> > start
>>>> >>>>> >> > practicing TDD? If this hasn't persuaded you, I'd appreciate
>>>> it if
>>>> >>>>> >> > you
>>>> >>>>> >> > would
>>>> >>>>> >> > respond and give your perspective so we can talk about it.
>>>> I'm
>>>> >>>>> >> > very
>>>> >>>>> >> > interested in seeing you guys continue to put out great
>>>> software,
>>>> >>>>> >> > but
>>>> >>>>> >> > I'm
>>>> >>>>> >> > concerned that as you write more code, you're going to be
>>>> creating
>>>> >>>>> >> > more
>>>> >>>>> >> > for
>>>> >>>>> >> > yourselves to maintain and the amount of time you spend
>>>> writing
>>>> >>>>> >> > new
>>>> >>>>> >> > software
>>>> >>>>> >> > is going to drop off exponentially as the complexity (as
>>>> >>>>> >> > complexity
>>>> >>>>> >> > produces
>>>> >>>>> >> > bugs) increases.
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > Please let me know if/how I can help you.
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > Craig
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>> >> > --
>>>> >>>>> >> > Mailing list:
>>>> https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> >>>>> >> > Post to     : elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >>>>> >> > Unsubscribe :
>>>> https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> >>>>> >> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>> >>>>> >> >
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> --
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>>>> >>>>> Post to     : elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>> >>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --
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>>>> >>>> Post to     : elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
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>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>> >
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
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