kicad-developers team mailing list archive

["Tim Hanson" <tim@...>]

Hi Lorenzo,

here is my opinion .. take it cautiously and please don't be discouraged by it
(1) Kicad already has a great set of menus -- contextual menus, which
are much better than typical at-the-top menus, as they almost always
show pertinent commands, especially with the introduction of the
disambiguation menus for PCBnew.
(2) Icons are not that hard to learn, as they all come with useful
tooltips, and in kicad they seem to represent a terse and useful set
of things that you might want to do.
(3) macros = zero clicks (yay!!) Icons = one click. menu = two. I
agree with dick and Alain here.

There are a great number of other small things that could be fixed.
I, for one would love something that did a moderately good job of
automatically placing components upon initial netlist import. It
doesn't have to be complicated, but it would save SO MUCH time, after
which the designer could go back to correct and optimize placement.
The afterward we could try to use the autorouter to help more.

I think a good way to start would be to take the approximate positions
of the components on the source schematic and use it as seed positions
for an annealing algorithm which moves components stochastically and
measures entropy/complexity via the length of ratsnest lines and the
number of intersections. Actually, anyone know if software like this
is already out there? Maybe that will be my next pet project...

good luck, happy coding!

Tim

On Feb 19, 2008 11:12 AM, Alain M. <alainm@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dick Hollenbeck escreveu:
>
> > Lorenzo Farina wrote:
> >> Hello. I'm trying to add wxAUI and Art support to Kicad (eeschema &
> >> pcbnew). This will be time-consuming, but I hope snapping toolbars
> >> (and, next, internal frames) could make interface mutch more simple.
> >> I'm actually working on complete menus, this means that (as every MS
> >> application),
> >
> > Hi Lorenzo,
> > Welcome to Kicad developer's list. Your ideas are fairly ambitious.
>
> For what it is worth, my opinion:
>
> 1) SDI for programs like kicad is better. That is not universal, but in
> a program that does things so complex as kicad, it allows me to use OS
> resources (like multiple desktops and/or monitors) to manage my job.
>
> 2) IMHO the discussion about menu versus icon id beside the point. What
> *is important" is discussing configurable menus/toolbars and specially
> MACROS and/or shortcuts. I have seen that something has been done in
> that regard...
>
> I am an old time user of orcad/tango in DOS, both have macros and I used
> it a lot... (FWIM orcad/sdt had better macros, an excelent template to
> copy)
>
> Cheers,
> Alain
>
>
>
> >
> > One statement you made caught my attenion:
> >
> >> every toolbar command should be found also on menus.
> >
> >
> > You have stated it like everyone shares your opinion on the matter. And
> > I question that, because if it were true, I think the menus would
> > already be so populated. Also, there should be some discussion on the
> > suitability of MDI vs. SDI (single document interface) for these 2
> > programs if you are planning on going towards MDI.
> >
> > I spent the last 8 years writing an unrelated software application which
> > uses SDI and icons with tooltips and NO menus. So when I found that
> > Kicad used a similar philosophy as my work product, I was pleasantly
> > surprised. Multiple ways of doing the same thing comes at some cost.
> > Just because Microsoft made some decisions 20 years ago, does not mean
> > that we all have to be stuck with those decisions for eternity.
> > Tooltip enhanced icons, vs. menus, is all a matter of personal
> preference.
> >
> > It might be prudent to do a user poll before you spend time on some of
> > these issues, or maybe write up a two page summary of what you are
> > thinking about and get some feedback on it.
> >
> > This is one topic which is not specific to developers but rather could
> > be appropriate for a wider forum of feedback on a proposal.
> >
> > Work which simply rearranges the dashboard may not be as appreciated as
> > work which adds new functionality.
> >
> > Some of my initial thoughts only....
> >
> > In any case we welcome your exchange of ideas and creative input.
> > Clearly creativity can be useful here, and it looks like you have it to
> > share.
> >
> >
> > Dick
> >
> >> This is because a lot of functions cannot be understood by new users
> >> simply watching icons, and changes could give a standard interface.
> >> I'm very interested in development of Kicad, witch is actually THE
> >> best GPL schematic and PCB drawing. However, threre are a few things
> >> that needs to be changed before massive use. One of the most
> >> importants is the wire-snap-to-pin facility. Is there anyone who is
> >> working on that?
> >> Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>