kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx>]

But what’s the point of having ctrl-S at all if it just moves it to some other place in volatile memory?  The user might as well just wait until they close CvPcb, as volatile is volatile, no?

> On 21 Mar 2018, at 12:47, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> A possible short term fix is to change the action from save to update
> schematic which is what really happens and is more analogous to clicking
> the OK button in a modal dialog.  I don't know if saving the schematic
> from CvPcb makes a lot of sense.  I would keep the ctrl+s shortcut.
> Changing this will most like annoy users who are used to it.
> 
> As for changing CvPcb to a dialog, keep in mind that there are a several
> child windows (footprint and 3d model views) that can be opened that
> would not fit into your typical dialog behavior.  There is also support
> for handling footprint association files.
> 
> 
> On 3/20/2018 3:44 PM, Jeff Young wrote:
>> I think the cleanest user model would be to make both CvPcb and the
>> Symbol Table alternative views of the document.  However, that either
>> suggests a tabbed presentation (where two views are not visible at
>> once), or hooking up CvPcb and the Symbol Table to reflect changes made
>> in the schema.
>> 
>> Given that the normal use-case is more batch-oriented (the user has
>> other tools to do single associations or edit single symbol fields), I
>> don’t think it warrants that kind of investment.
>> 
>> So that means we’re stuck with a more modal approach.  (Note that while
>> CvPcb is the equivalent of modeless today, it doesn’t update in
>> real-time, and silently drops changes made to symbols which no longer
>> exist in the schema.)
>> 
>> It sounds like we’re coalescing around having save be active in the
>> (modal) dialogs.  How do we communicate that?  Perhaps just a “Save”
>> button in the dialog is good enough — it both gives them the idea that
>> this is just a dialog to the parent application (so “obviously” Save
>> will save the parent schematic), and at least a clue that they can cmd-S
>> as well.
>> 
>> If that’s the direction we want to move in, then I can just have CvPcb’s
>> Save write the schema to disk for 5.0.  Re-presenting CvPcb as a dialog
>> is probably too large (ie: risky) for 5.0.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20 Mar 2018, at 18:00, Bernhard Stegmaier <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On a second thought it is basically just another special “Symbol
>>> Table” edit dialog.
>>> 
>>> The problem of losing a lot of unsaved work in case of a crash is also
>>> there for the “Symbol Table” dialog.
>>> I could hack in a lot of valuable data in custom fields and although
>>> this dialog has an “Apply” button, you can’t save there.
>>> I don’t know if some autosave would take care of it…
>>> 
>>> So, however it is done wrt save/apply it should be the same for both
>>> “dialogs”.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Bernhard
>>> 
>>>> On 20. Mar 2018, at 18:55, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah I also agree that it should be basically a dialog of eeschema
>>>> rather than a separate program, so I guess it makes sense to write
>>>> changes immediately to the in-memory schematic, and mark it as
>>>> unsaved for the user to consciously hit the save button later if desired.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jon
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:52 PM, Russell Oliver
>>>> <roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    I second Bernhard's comments. 
>>>>    I think it shouldn't seem like a separate program, just another
>>>>    dialog of eeschema that takes the what you see is what you get
>>>>    approach. 
>>>>    As long as the footprint references are valid the schematic
>>>>    should be updated when the dialog is closed, and marked modified
>>>>    if there was a change. 
>>>>    Saving the schematic to file is then done through eeschema proper. 
>>>> 
>>>>    Russell 
>>>> 
>>>>    On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 04:40 Bernhard Stegmaier,
>>>>    <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        Just my 2 cents…
>>>>        I would immediately write back any change in cvpcb to schematic. 
>>>>        I never understood why I have to hit the button to do that.
>>>>        There is no PCB preview or something like that in cvpcb, so I
>>>>        have to apply all changes anyway to check them directly in
>>>>        the PCB.
>>>>        Then, keep the button and save schematic with it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>        Regards,
>>>>        Bernhard
>>>> 
>>>>>        On 20. Mar 2018, at 18:28, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>        <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>        Why don't you like the idea of saving the schematic when you
>>>>>        hit the save button? That seems like a reasonable expected
>>>>>        behavior to me at least.
>>>>> 
>>>>>        (I dislike nag dialogs especially when they seem to have no
>>>>>        purpose)
>>>>> 
>>>>>        -Jon
>>>>> 
>>>>>        On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:26 PM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>        <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>            CvPcb has a Save command (complete with disk icon). 
>>>>>            Only it doesn’t do that.  (It simply writes the changes
>>>>>            back to eeschema.)
>>>>> 
>>>>>            If it were a dialog, I’d say that’s not good.  But this
>>>>>            is CvPcb, where you could easily spend an hour making
>>>>>            associations (hitting save every few minutes), only to
>>>>>            have your machine and/or Kicad go down with all your
>>>>>            changes.  That’s borderline horrific.
>>>>> 
>>>>>            I don’t like the idea of blind-saving the eeschema
>>>>>            document, but I think that would be better than what we
>>>>>            have now.
>>>>> 
>>>>>            Another idea would be to trigger an auto-save for each
>>>>>            CvPcb save.  It’s not ideal because the user may think
>>>>>            that there aren’t any changes in their eeschema file and
>>>>>            therefore ignore the auto-save warning when restarting.
>>>>> 
>>>>>            Yet another idea would be to foist the decision on the
>>>>>            user with a “Save your schematic?” dialog every time you
>>>>>            save in CvPcb.  That’s pretty hard to love, but with
>>>>>            Orson’s new KIDIALOG we could at least have a “don’t ask
>>>>>            me again” checkbox.  Maybe that’s not so bad….
>>>>> 
>>>>>            Thoughts?
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