kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

I'm fine with getting rid of the save and updating the schematic
footprint fields when closing cvpcb.  Most of this is historical baggage
from when cvpcb was a stand alone app and required intermediate files
for assigning footprints.

On 3/21/2018 9:41 AM, Jeff Young wrote:
> But what’s the point of having ctrl-S at all if it just moves it to some
> other place in volatile memory?  The user might as well just wait until
> they close CvPcb, as volatile is volatile, no?
> 
>> On 21 Mar 2018, at 12:47, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> A possible short term fix is to change the action from save to update
>> schematic which is what really happens and is more analogous to clicking
>> the OK button in a modal dialog.  I don't know if saving the schematic
>> from CvPcb makes a lot of sense.  I would keep the ctrl+s shortcut.
>> Changing this will most like annoy users who are used to it.
>>
>> As for changing CvPcb to a dialog, keep in mind that there are a several
>> child windows (footprint and 3d model views) that can be opened that
>> would not fit into your typical dialog behavior.  There is also support
>> for handling footprint association files.
>>
>>
>> On 3/20/2018 3:44 PM, Jeff Young wrote:
>>> I think the cleanest user model would be to make both CvPcb and the
>>> Symbol Table alternative views of the document.  However, that either
>>> suggests a tabbed presentation (where two views are not visible at
>>> once), or hooking up CvPcb and the Symbol Table to reflect changes made
>>> in the schema.
>>>
>>> Given that the normal use-case is more batch-oriented (the user has
>>> other tools to do single associations or edit single symbol fields), I
>>> don’t think it warrants that kind of investment.
>>>
>>> So that means we’re stuck with a more modal approach.  (Note that while
>>> CvPcb is the equivalent of modeless today, it doesn’t update in
>>> real-time, and silently drops changes made to symbols which no longer
>>> exist in the schema.)
>>>
>>> It sounds like we’re coalescing around having save be active in the
>>> (modal) dialogs.  How do we communicate that?  Perhaps just a “Save”
>>> button in the dialog is good enough — it both gives them the idea that
>>> this is just a dialog to the parent application (so “obviously” Save
>>> will save the parent schematic), and at least a clue that they can cmd-S
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> If that’s the direction we want to move in, then I can just have CvPcb’s
>>> Save write the schema to disk for 5.0.  Re-presenting CvPcb as a dialog
>>> is probably too large (ie: risky) for 5.0.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 20 Mar 2018, at 18:00, Bernhard Stegmaier
>>>> <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On a second thought it is basically just another special “Symbol
>>>> Table” edit dialog.
>>>>
>>>> The problem of losing a lot of unsaved work in case of a crash is also
>>>> there for the “Symbol Table” dialog.
>>>> I could hack in a lot of valuable data in custom fields and although
>>>> this dialog has an “Apply” button, you can’t save there.
>>>> I don’t know if some autosave would take care of it…
>>>>
>>>> So, however it is done wrt save/apply it should be the same for both
>>>> “dialogs”.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bernhard
>>>>
>>>>> On 20. Mar 2018, at 18:55, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah I also agree that it should be basically a dialog of eeschema
>>>>> rather than a separate program, so I guess it makes sense to write
>>>>> changes immediately to the in-memory schematic, and mark it as
>>>>> unsaved for the user to consciously hit the save button later if
>>>>> desired.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:52 PM, Russell Oliver
>>>>> <roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:roliver8143@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>    I second Bernhard's comments. 
>>>>>    I think it shouldn't seem like a separate program, just another
>>>>>    dialog of eeschema that takes the what you see is what you get
>>>>>    approach. 
>>>>>    As long as the footprint references are valid the schematic
>>>>>    should be updated when the dialog is closed, and marked modified
>>>>>    if there was a change. 
>>>>>    Saving the schematic to file is then done through eeschema proper. 
>>>>>
>>>>>    Russell 
>>>>>
>>>>>    On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 04:40 Bernhard Stegmaier,
>>>>>    <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>        Just my 2 cents…
>>>>>        I would immediately write back any change in cvpcb to
>>>>> schematic. 
>>>>>        I never understood why I have to hit the button to do that.
>>>>>        There is no PCB preview or something like that in cvpcb, so I
>>>>>        have to apply all changes anyway to check them directly in
>>>>>        the PCB.
>>>>>        Then, keep the button and save schematic with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>        Regards,
>>>>>        Bernhard
>>>>>
>>>>>>        On 20. Mar 2018, at 18:28, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>        <mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Why don't you like the idea of saving the schematic when you
>>>>>>        hit the save button? That seems like a reasonable expected
>>>>>>        behavior to me at least.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        (I dislike nag dialogs especially when they seem to have no
>>>>>>        purpose)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        -Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 1:26 PM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>        <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            CvPcb has a Save command (complete with disk icon). 
>>>>>>            Only it doesn’t do that.  (It simply writes the changes
>>>>>>            back to eeschema.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            If it were a dialog, I’d say that’s not good.  But this
>>>>>>            is CvPcb, where you could easily spend an hour making
>>>>>>            associations (hitting save every few minutes), only to
>>>>>>            have your machine and/or Kicad go down with all your
>>>>>>            changes.  That’s borderline horrific.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            I don’t like the idea of blind-saving the eeschema
>>>>>>            document, but I think that would be better than what we
>>>>>>            have now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Another idea would be to trigger an auto-save for each
>>>>>>            CvPcb save.  It’s not ideal because the user may think
>>>>>>            that there aren’t any changes in their eeschema file and
>>>>>>            therefore ignore the auto-save warning when restarting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Yet another idea would be to foist the decision on the
>>>>>>            user with a “Save your schematic?” dialog every time you
>>>>>>            save in CvPcb.  That’s pretty hard to love, but with
>>>>>>            Orson’s new KIDIALOG we could at least have a “don’t ask
>>>>>>            me again” checkbox.  Maybe that’s not so bad….
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Thoughts?
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