kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

Eeschema already supports creating default optional fields in the
configuration settings dialog.  Used correctly, these will give you the
same optional field names for every project without having to add them
by hand to each symbol and possibly typing in different field names by
accident.  The proposed patch would intermingle the default fields with
existing schematic symbol fields which would break existing BOMs which I
don't think users will appreciate.  The new symbol field editor should
make editing the optional field values much easier than using the symbol
edit dialog.  Is this feature not useful enough or not documented well
enough for users?  Hard coding default field names that no one can agree
upon is not going to happen.  As I've stated before, I can set 10
different designers down and I will get 10 different sets of default
field names.  This really seems like me to be a configuration issue.

The only possible solution that I would accept is to move the default
field definitions from the eeschema configuration file into the default
kicad project file.  This way existing projects would not be polluted
with the proposed default fields and users could define their own
default fields in a custom project file.  I recently introduced a change
that allows the user to define a custom template path which takes
precedence over the system template path so this solution is workable.
A more flexible solution would be to add a "File->New from Custom
Template" command to KiCad to allow the user to select any custom
project file.  This would allow for multiple custom project files
instead of forcing the user to use only a single default project file.

Cheers,

Wayne

On 05/20/2018 06:27 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
> I agree, I had the same issue when I was doing my board, I needed a
> field for all components, and I had to manually add it for every item,
> there was no way to add this field to all components at the same time or
> to have it add by default from the addition of a new component to the sheet.
> 
> Which reminds me, Cadence Designer has tools to manipulate fields on a
> large scale, whether to add, delete, show, hide, etc, this is something
> that would be nice to have in KiCAD, either that or a table of all
> components for the sheet or schematic and columns for each field, with
> ability to show/hide each cell individually.
> 
> I think the ultimate goal is to make the Symbol Table more useful, but
> that'll take to long for v5 so if Kristoffer's patch allows an easy way
> to add fields to all components or similar, I'd say do it because people
> will be pissed and waste their time doing it for every component in
> their schematic.
> 
> On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:01 PM, kristoffer Ödmark
> <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>     I obvviously disagree, the correct solution would be to have both.
>     This does not hinder that, its not even the same problem.
> 
>     The problem is for everyone who want for example the Manufacturer
>     Part Number will have to define a fieldname, which every time
>     results in them abbreviating it to something different. Hence nobody
>     can work with Manufacturer Part Numbers.
> 
>     Here is something similar, Imagine all of the colours in Kicad for
>     all of the layers where white by default. Have fun defining all the
>     colours yourself.
>     Maybe you want to define them yourself, nobody is stopping you now
>     either, just get cracking.
> 
>     How easy would it be for you to look at the board someone else made
>     later and understand what is what? Maybe for some that is a better
>     solution, but for me that
>     would be an extreme example of bad default values.
> 
>     This is how the default fields are now, they are white, or more like
>     see-throught, which makes life harder for anyone that
>     wants to contribute or create tools that interact with kicad, and as
>     I previously said, this is only a default, you are still
>     equally able to add/remove or change the fields how you want to.
>     But, tools like kibom or various other web-based tools can much
>     easier integrate to it, or at least support a default value as well.
>     So for the majority of users, who doesnt change defaults,
>     the tool would just work.
> 
>     I will reiterate, I do not care what they are named, I want a
>     default field where I can put my manufacturer part number, amongs
>     others.
>     The specific abbreviation or name does not matter, If i care, I can
>     manually add/remove my own fields *JUST AS I DO NOW*, but for the people
>     who use it, it will be easier across projects, for the people that
>     dont, It will not matter.
> 
>     Sane defaults matter. A lot actually.
> 
>     - Kristoffer
> 
>     On 2018-05-20 23:40, José Ignacio wrote:
> 
>         I dont like this, the right solution would be to allow for
>         importing a default config into kicad for things like that, as
>         different groups will have different policies.
> 
>         On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:31 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark
>         <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
>         <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
> 
>             The patch should only affect first startup, changes to the
>         fields
>             will be saved
> 
>             On May 20, 2018 22:18, "Seth Hillbrand"
>         <seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>
>             <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
> 
>                 ​Hi Kristoffer-
> 
>                 This feels like a management issue rather than a tool
>         issue. 
>                 If the user doesn't want any extra fields, how would your
>                 patch allow that?
> 
>                 -S
> 
> 
>                 Am So., 20. Mai 2018 um 13:00 Uhr schrieb kristoffer Ödmark
>                 <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
>                 <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>>:
> 
> 
>                     Hello!
> 
>                     I will open this can of worms again, I feel that I have
>                     to. So from what
>                     I gather we have proffessionals as the main aim in
>         Kicad.
>                     The reason I will open this issue again is that I
>         feel we
>                     have a
>                     collaboration issue, maybe not a mayor one. But one
>                     nonetheless.
> 
>                     We really need more default fields for our schematic
>                     symbols. Im not
>                     proposing required fields, I am *ONLY* proposing that
>                     there should be default fields added into the default
>                     fields settings
>                     tab. I am not proposing they need to be filled in the
>                     libraries, nor that people need to use them. only that
>                     they need to
>                     exist with a fresh install of kicad so that easy
>         problems
>                     such as theese do not happen:
> 
>                          - Collaborators working on the same project
>         will not
>                     create
>                     duplicate fields in libs/projects describing the same
>                     thing by mistake
>                          - Projects that aim to interact or add to Kicad can
>                     assume that the
>                     Fields will exist, and will know what name/tag to
>         look for
>                            (bom exporters, price checkers, MacroFab, etc)
>                          - Open source projects will be easier to
>         collaborate,
>                     read and order
> 
>                     The reason I think it is better to have the fields by
>                     default than the
>                     current solution to add them is that the majority
>         will use
>                     what exists, and tools can support it from the very
>                     beginning, people
>                     with inhouse tools seems to dislike this, since they
>         map their
>                     parts with an inhouse number - and then handle the
>                     information about the
>                     part there. From what I gather, this is not the
>         majority, and
>                     these persons still modify the default fields settings.
> 
>                     I spent maybe 30-40 mins checking the "made with kicad"
>                     projects, I
>                     found that the most common addition to libs and
>         schematics
>                     are:
>                          - Manufacturers part number, these were named
>         widely
>                     different in
>                     projects, (BOM, MP, MPN, #mfg, or different syntaxes in
>                     the Value field )
>                              I even saw a mix of these in the same project
>                     once, along with
>                     some people having the vendor id only.
>                          - Manufacturer ( found some different languages
>         though )
> 
>                     more uncommon things was, Tolerance( 10%, 20pps),
>         Ratings
>                     ( 1/4W, 85C,
>                     16V ), Vendor information and different
>         Descriptions. They
>                     were named
>                     and abbreviated
>                     very differently accross projects.
> 
>                     What I would like to see is these additional fields by
>                     default, but
>                     hidden from the schematic unless changed by user.
>                          Tolerance ( used for setting tolerances of
>         resistors,
>                     capacitors,
>                     oscillators, etc )
>                          MaxRating ( field were one can specify max Voltage,
>                     Ampere,
>                     Frequency, or whatever the component needs )
>                          Manufacturer ( For inhouse numbers, they could
>         either
>                     just remove
>                     it, or use the company/group name )
>                          MPN ( Maybe PartNumber could be used here, and
>         people
>                     who use
>                     inhouse numbers use it aswell, I dont really care
>         what its
>                     called, as
>                     long as its called something )
>                          Vendor
>                          Notes
> 
>                     I would be all up for extra additions/removals, but I
>                     would prefer if
>                     the naming is not discussed, but rather just
>                     decided/agreed upon by
>                     someone in the lead team.
>                     The very least I think should be added in case the
>                     previous is to much are:
>                          Tolerance
>                          Manufacturer
>                          MPN
> 
>                     I attach a patch for the minimal set, tested on linux by
>                     removing the
>                     .config/kicad/eeschema file.
> 
>                     - Kristoffer
> 
> 
>                     ps
>                     Some github files i reviewed, not all:
>                    
>         https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/blob/master/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
>         <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/blob/master/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>
>                    
>         <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/blob/master/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
>         <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/blob/master/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>>
>                    
>         https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blixten%20LED%20Device/Blixten.sch
>         <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blixten%20LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>
>                    
>         <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blixten%20LED%20Device/Blixten.sch
>         <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blixten%20LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>>
>                    
>         https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master/pcb%20design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
>         <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master/pcb%20design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>
>                    
>         <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master/pcb%20design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
>         <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master/pcb%20design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>>
>                    
>         https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch/cap_smd.lib
>         <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch/cap_smd.lib>
>                    
>         <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch/cap_smd.lib <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch/cap_smd.lib>>
>                    
>         https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schematic_pcb/electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
>         <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schematic_pcb/electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>
>                    
>         <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schematic_pcb/electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
>         <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schematic_pcb/electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>>
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> -- 
> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
> future [JFK]
> 
> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
> Live Long and Prosper,
> Andrey
> 
> 
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