kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Nick Østergaard <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx>]

A solution to this could be go genrate idf models more interactively as
suggested Jon. We already have idfcyl and idfrect as references. I assume
there is no reason to use IDF over STEP as the physical representation.

On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 21:01, Mário Luzeiro <mrluzeiro@xxxxx> wrote:

> that would work for me too ;)
>
> Mario
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:53
> To: Mário Luzeiro
> Cc: Seth Hillbrand; kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive values?
>
> Note Altium's solution to the use case of needing "easy basic models": it
> can actually generate the models built-in.
>
> You just specify some parameters and it will generate cylinders, spheres,
> or extruded shapes from a 2D contour.
>
> If we could add this kind of feature in the future, maybe we would not
> need to support "stretching" generic models, as we could just generate the
> right generic model parametrically (without "stretching" a source model)
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 2:50 PM Mário Luzeiro <mrluzeiro@xxxxx<mailto:
> mrluzeiro@xxxxx>> wrote:
> From my user experience: I use the 3 scale values on my projects.
> I created unit solids (eg: 1mm cube, 1mm cylinder radius / thickness, etc)
> and then I use it to quickly create shapes (by adjusting X,Y,Z scale) to
> populate the board if I don't have the proper STEP model.
> This is helpful to create round buttons, push buttons switch house
> packages, displays (attached is an example I made just using 1mm cubes)
> I'm using WRL but I believe it should work if I had used STEP scaled and
> then export it for CAD purposes.
>
> If you remove scale at all, I will need to learn and use a new CAD
> software :/ :)
>
> My suggestion is keep the scale but hide (or disable) it by default on the
> UI and it should only be enabled by clicking on some checkbox, at that
> time, displaying some message to the user "this is not a good idea for
> CAD.."
>
>
> > I'm not sure the history of why VRML was chosen as the first model type
> that was supported
>
> Maybe at that time it was created was a very time consuming thing to
> implement.
> For STEP we need a 3rd part library (as it is very complex format).
> On the current 3D-Viewer implementation, Cirilo worked alone on the model
> importer code alone and it took some months of work..
>
> Mario
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Kicad-developers <kicad-developers-bounces+mrluzeiro=
> ua.pt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:ua.pt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of
> Seth Hillbrand <seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Sent: 29 September 2020 19:01
> To: Jon Evans
> Cc: kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] 3D-Viewer: limit scale to positive values?
>
> I've never seen another package use VRML.  Everyone uses STEP.  I suspect
> if we were implementing this today, we would look at the tradeoff on
> support/benefit for VRML and limit ourselves to STEP as well.
>
> I like Ian's suggestion for unit options.
>
> -Seth
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:22 AM Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> wrote:
> Do other EDA tools allow model scaling?  Altium doesn't even allow VRML
> import in the first place.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:10 PM Seth Hillbrand <seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> wrote:
> Well, we've backed ourselves into a bit of a corner.  VRML is specified in
> meters, so if we're assuming inches, we're a bit off in left field.  But do
> we need three separate scale parameters?  We could reduce to 1, correct?
>
> In the official footprint library, we have 7 footprints that specify
> non-unity scaling. (Banana_Jack_[1-3], NS-Tech_Grove_1x04, Fuse_Blade_ATO,
> Fuse_Blad_Mini, Oscillator_SMD_TXC0_G158).
>
> -Seth
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:30 AM Ian McInerney <Ian.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx
> <mailto:Ian.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx><mailto:Ian.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx<mailto:
> Ian.S.McInerney@xxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
> We can't remove the scaling option until we make the VRML importer handle
> proper unit selection. I have routinely run into the case where I go
> OpenSCAD -> Wings3D -> KiCad and design a model using mm in OpenSCAD
> because it makes for easier computations (all the datasheet values are
> nicely given in mm) and then have to apply a scaling factor of 0.3937 to
> all the axes in KiCad to make it the proper size because we seem to have a
> hardcoded assumption about what unit system the VRML file is in.
>
> In fact, the KLC says: WRL files do not specify absolute dimensions. KiCad
> normalizes model parameters to units of inches and the internal units
> (dimensionless) of the WRL model must be scaled accordingly.
>
> -Ian
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 4:50 PM Seth Hillbrand <seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:seth@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> wrote:
> There has been some discussion to removing the scale option here
> altogether.  The logic being that if you need the model scaled, you should
> be doing this in your solid CAD not in your electronic CAD.  I have come
> around to this idea and it might be worth implementing rather than doing
> the scale limiting.
>
> -Seth
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 4:52 AM Mário Luzeiro <mrluzeiro@xxxxx<mailto:
> mrluzeiro@xxxxx><mailto:mrluzeiro@xxxxx<mailto:mrluzeiro@xxxxx>>> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm wondering if it is safe to limit the scale of shapes to be positive
> values?
>
> Applying negative scales will cause inverted shapes and render issues on
> the models.
>
> Could be that anyone in the world is using negative scale values?
> or should be safe to limit it?
>
> This is related with this issues:
> https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/5817
>
> Mario
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> Lead Developer
> +1-530-302-5483‬<tel:+12126039372>
> Davis, CA
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> [KiCad Services Corporation Logo]
> Seth Hillbrand
> Lead Developer
> +1-530-302-5483‬<tel:+12126039372>
> Davis, CA
> www.kipro-pcb.com<http://www.kipro-pcb.com><https://www.kipro-pcb.com/>
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