openerp-community team mailing list archive

["jeff.wang" <jeff@xxxxxxxxx>]

"release something so great that there will be no discussion anymore"

I Don't think this is heath way for a open source project

Make customer surprise is a good market point, but keep making partners surprise is touching their bottom line ! 

------------------
Jeff Wang |  jeff@xxxxxxxxx | 18016291663 | 02158980787
@OpenERP_Jeff "As simple as possible, As complex as needed"
                    
      Maintainer of Open ERP china community  
      http://www.openerp-china.org 


 




------------------ Original ------------------
From:  "Fabien Pinckaers";<fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
Date:  Tue, Jan 21, 2014 01:54 AM
To:  "Joël Grand-Guillaum"<joel.grandguillaume@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 
Cc:  "openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"<openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Frederik Kramer"<frederik.kramer@xxxxxxxxxx>; 
Subject:  Re: [Openerp-community] OpenERP CMS: How is server separationimplemented?





  * OpenERP isn't able to sync easily with another OpenERP instance to have 2 server, one for e-commerce, one for ERP. It's more easy to do though than sync 2 different systems you're right, but nothing concrete exists today.
 






base_synchro exists and works. It's not perfect, it's very complex, it's painful, but it works.

But I think that syncing OpenERP-Magento is the same pain, whether it's with your connectors or others community modules. Does it work out-of-the-box by non developers? There will always be some tricky features that will require tricky devs.
 



  * OpenERP scale well (saas is the proof), but still we face performance issue quite often in our important project. By putting OpenERP as a front and back end on a same server can have dramatical issue regarding the company's operations, I will not take that risk for my important (in terms of orders/users) customers at this stage.
 




Yes, but I think most performance issue are fixed on v8.


Again, I am not telling OpenERP is perfect. I just say that you will also have performance issues with Magento (or others) and probably more than with OpenERP. We fixed all performance issues EVER reported at OpenERP SA. (some are only fixed in v8, like POS and stock related ones)
  
 * OpenERP has less code. That is good, easier to maintain, that's great. Now, lot's of feature are today missing compare to other e-commerce platform: bundle product (like Dell computer configuration), multi-dimensional variant (and I'm speaking here of their configuration and day-to-day use, try to change a variant of T-shirt with color, size and logo), cross-selling, up-selling, etc.. But we need a start right ? And in that you did something huge, as you said this is v1.0, it's amazing, but it hasn't yet all features that other have today.
 




I think you don't know what openerp provides by default: variants are working, cross-selling too, up-selling too.


And they are plenty of things that OpenERP do and Magento don't. Most of the features announced for magento 2 are already in OpenERP: SEO optimized, page designer, support for huge number of products, better modularity, ...
 

But do you manage all these features with Magento connectors? If OpenERP don't manage it, you will not get it working with a connector too.





Seriously, this discussion is too subjective to be constructive.
 

What will matter is how much productive are you to deploy CMS-eCommerce-ERP with either Magento+OpenERP+Connector or just OpenERP. (including time needed to develop missing features).


  * OpenERP E-Commerce will I'm sure fit big company needs in the future, but today it doesn't.
 



No. Sorry, I don't agree.
You say that, but you don't know what's inside OpenERP eCommerce.


It does support big companies as much as Magento does. (and probably even more)
 

 
 It doesn't means your new module isn't great and bring new rules and standards in the place and for that I love it !





You can try to categorize OpenERP eCommerce for small companies.
 But do that at your own risks.



Others partners that will deploy OpenERP eCommerce will be more competitive than those that go with Magento+OpenERP+Connector.


If you want to claim OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, please have real arguments "It's too slow with X products or Y orders, while Magento is fast", "it miss this features that costs more to develop than the deployment cost of the connector", ...
 



Overall, I think it's a waste of time to try to convince each others.


On your side: You should test it, and judge based on your tests. (or, better, sell it to firsts customers and judge based on ROI)
 On my side: I should release something so great that there will be no discussion anymore. (including on the security layer)




Fabien


 
 Joël


 

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  

 * When you're facing hundreds of orders a days and thousands visitors, you'll not succeed to have it all in one instance. Imagine, who will block his operation because they have too much click on their front-end ? Fors that reason (and security if you matter about), you'll prefer 2 servers.
 










Don't agree AT ALL.



  - OpenERP is built to scale (*)
  - A full featured OpenERP will be much faster than Magento or Prestashop
 

You point is only valid if magento or prestashop are faster and allow to scale more than OpenERP. But it's actually the opposite!



Why will OpenERP be always faster than MagentoCommerce and Prestashop. Because it's much simpler and, thus, much easier to optimize. Just check the number of lines of code:
   - OpenERP (with ALL modules: CRM, Accounting, WMS, eCommerce, Events, ...): 150k lines of code, only 15k for CMS+eCommerce+events
  - Magento (WITHOUT any module, version 1.8): 918k lines of code
   - Prestashop (WITHOUT any module): 257k lines of code


So, at equivalent-features, OpenERP has around 10x less lines of code.
One is easier to optimize and scale and the others are not :)
 
It's not because we do more that we are more complex or slower.





(*) all massive read operations are O(1), we fine tuned it for huge transactions. Only one module was a bottleneck to scale huge sales, it's "stock", and its refactoring for v8 makes it become super fast and its speed is not anymore dependent on the number of historic transactions.
 

Our SaaS servers already manages millions of documents per server, without any issues. Try to do that with Magento.


  

 * base_synchro is clearely not an option to separate 2 OpenERP servers. It's has simply been abandoned by OpenERP for good reasons IMO (bad design, to many troubles in real uses cases, no atomic transaction to inappropriate to sync ERP datas).
 







base_synchro is not perfect. We still use it on some projects. We removed it from v7 because we think it's nor for end-users as it's too complex but it helped us a lot. Camptocamp's connector may be an option too.
 

My point is not to use this or that, but: it's much easier to sync OpenERP with OpenERP rather than OpenERP with something else.
 
  

* This included ecommerce is a great step forward and people will love it. But other e-commerce platform (like Magento, Prestashop and lot's of others) have years of experience and devs behind them. They provide lot's of advance products, sales and scaling features that you will not found in OpenERP E-commerce yet.
 






That's actually their main issue! They have years of technical debt.
They became bloated and have difficulties to evolve.
 


 
* In case you're running a important e-commerce solution, I think you will definitely keep 2 tools and use a connector in-between (like https://code.launchpad.net/openerp-connector)
 












 For others purposes, like HR & recruitment, events publication and more, this new feature is clearly a big advantage. It will also serve small companies for their first e-commerce experience and that's great ! This is also a first step in the direction of having one tools to rules front and back end together. But I cannot reasonably imagine it's viable for middle to large companies currently.
 




If you think OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, you are missing the point completly. OpenERP is designed to handle big companies need, much more than current eCommerce software. We are only at v1 and I bet we can already serve big companies much better than Magento. I think that if we do a list of features, OpenERP has more green marks, even on v1!
 



Side note: our videos emphasized on useability and simple interface. It does not mean that we don't handle complex/advanced needs. It's OpenERP afterall :)


 Another way to view this: the eCommerce module is only 2600 lines of code. Even if something is missing in v1, it's a piece of cake to add a new feature on such a clean structure. (and you don't have to learn a new language/framework)
  

 






  module and ported to v7.  There is an outstanding merge request in to
 server-env-tools on v7 branch which as yet has not been reviewed.  So
 if you require this functionality then please test it and get it
 merged.
 
 It adds a new module, base_synchro_auto for automating
 synchronisation, automatic population of fields with boolean style
 selection of fields to sync.  There is a third module which I am
 trying to work out how to make generic which is an initialisation and
 configuration module for existing databases which will match up all
 the existing matching records prior to syncing.
 
 It won't do translations AFAIK (although maybe syncing the
 ir_translations table does it, I don't know), but forms a good base
 upon which to extend.
 https://code.launchpad.net/~gdgellatly/server-env-tools/base-synchro-7.0/+merge/200127
 
 On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Mariano Ruiz <mrsarm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 > Fabien says:
 >
 > 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules like
 > base_synchro to sync them)
 >
 >
 > But, the base_synchro module is not supported any more from the 6.1 version.
 > We use this to sync two OpenERP 6.1 instance, and we found a lot of bug in
 > this module. A special error related for this discussion: the module not
 > sync translatable fields! only export the original value, without
 > translations.
 >
 > We report this, but the response was: "base_synchro" doesn't exist anymore
 > on trunk and in stable release 7.0, So this issue doesn't affect to trunk.
 >
 > So, we fix the module, but only tested in 6.1 version, maybe for 7.0 and
 > trunk version is not working, check the bug #1195801.
 >
 >
 > 2014/1/18 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
 >>
 >>
 >> >
 >> >> As an example, we just did a quick prototype to illustrate my point.
 >> >> Check this video, a new way of doing quotations:
 >> >>
 >> >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5SDZFcEJmTXFyNTA/edit?usp=sharing
 >> >
 >> > This is awesome. I imagine instead of sending a customer a quotation
 >> > with 100 pages, you can have a interactive webpage, including graphics,
 >> > videos, 3d-modells and all the stuff.
 >> >
 >> >> This is so cool. I bet it improves quotes success rate by at least 20%!
 >> >
 >> > If we have the first customer implementing this, i will ask him to do a
 >> > A/B-Testing to validate your numbers ;)
 >>
 >> We will use this for our own need within 4 weeks. So, I will be able to
 >> provide stats.
 >>
 >> >
 >> >> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules like
 >> >> base_synchro to sync them)
 >> >
 >> > What is the branch on that, so that we can have a look in details?
 >>
 >> It s an official module since v6
 >>
 >>
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > Greetings
 >> >
 >> > Markus
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > --
 >> > Dipl.-Comp.-Math. Markus Schneider
 >> > Softwareentwickler
 >> >
 >> > initOS GmbH & Co. KG
 >> > An der Eisenbahn 1
 >> > 21224 Rosengarten
 >> >
 >> > Mobil:   +49 (0)172 2303699
 >> > Phone:   +49 (0)4105 5615613
 >> > Fax:     +49 (0)4105 5615610
 >> >
 >> > Email:   markus.schneider@xxxxxxxxxx
 >> > Web:     http://www.initos.com
 >> >
 >> > Geschäftsführung:
 >> > Dipl. Wirt.-Inf. Frederik Kramer & Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Francke
 >> > Haftende Gesellschafterin: initOS Verwaltungs GmbH
 >> >
 >> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Rosengarten – Klecken
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 >> > USt-IdNr: DE 275698169
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 >>
 >> _______________________________________________
 >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
 >> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
 >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > Mariano Ruiz
 > Software Architect & Web Developer
 > http://www.mrdev.com.ar
 >
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
 > Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
 > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
 >
 
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camptocamp
 INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
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 Joël Grand-Guillaume
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-- 
   

 


camptocamp
 INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS


 Joël Grand-Guillaume
Division Manager
Business Solutions
 

+41 21 619 10 28
www.camptocamp.com