openerp-expert-production team mailing list archive

[Ana Juaristi <ajuaristio@xxxxxxxxx>]

HI Jan:

Very good analysis. I think you are right on this case. It's working when
you download grouped products on a sales order but... as it is now, it's
mandatory defining the group in magento administrator site. There is no
conexion if you want to define grouped products in OpenERP and upload
definition to Magento. I think it's the question, how to define
configuration in OpenERP for grouped products... is this right raphaël?

Thank you:

Ana



2011/2/11 Jan Verlaan - Veritos <jverlaan@xxxxxxxxxx>

>  Hi all,
>
> diving deeper into Magento, a BOM in OpenERP for grouped products in
> magento seems not the ultimate solution.
> I will explain why.
>
> A grouped product in Magento can have many faces. It is posible to group 3
> single items together and let the customer define the wanted quantity of the
> individual items.
> That seems also the reason that the sale order generated in magento doesn't
> contain the group itemname, but instead have all single items listed with
> the requested quantity.
> See http://demo.magentocommerce.com/magento-red-furniture-set.html =>
> order the set and choose your own qty for every singel item, and look to
> your cart!
> That Magento sale order with the individual items is imported in OpenERP
> and the only way to handle this correct is to have the same list with items
> in OpenERP too as between different orders the quantities can be different.
> So a BOM in OpenERP that  contains fixed quanties will not be the same then.
> Ergo, grouped products in magento are only there for the sake of the
> customer to sell more single items at once, but it is not a product but a
> sales configuration tool.
>
> I would say handle this order as a normal order. If one still wants to kit
> some products together with fixed quantities, make it a normal product with
> production bom in OpenERP and keep (minimal) stock. Upload it to magento as
> a single product with in product description only the items containing the
> kit.
> In this case nan_product_packs module isn't needed in the connector as this
> explodes the sales bom, which is already done on the magento site.
>
> Regards,
> Jan
>
> Op 11-02-11 16:02, David Mitchell schreef:
>
> For what it is worth . . . One of the areas we are working on and
> communicating with OpenERP right now is to "finally" fulfill the
> capabilities of a true Assembly/Sales BoM in OpenERP - as stated in the
> documentation since v5.
>
> This vision is:
> A product that is a kit (assembly/Sales BoM - which is assembly at time of
> Picking) would be ordered as a single line item in Sales Order.
> Upon confirmation of the order
> The picking would explode in the pick list so the stock person would pick
> all necessary components of the kit. The Sales Order would still only show
> one product.
> When picking is complete (or kitted up at time of picking) - a "behind the
> scenes combined operation/inventory move" will occur - as the items have
> been "consumed by picking". <-- just like a manufacturing operations
> The individual products would be removed from inventory.
> The product that is a kit - would be added to inventory (aka finished
> product) - and then subsequently removed when picking is done and complete
> (no partial picking allowed) <--- this accurately keeps inventory numbers
> in-line and allows managers to understand the consumption of goods in the
> kit and also which subcomponents are sold separately. <-- this is the issue
> with Phantom BoMs as they don't track inventory correctly.
>
> If this was available - wouldn't the grouping from Magento feed into OpenERP
> as a normal product order. If you're selling a single product this is a kit
> in Magento - just tell OpenERP you've sold a kit and let the operation I
> described above take place.
>
> If your selling grouped items in Magento (multiple products grouped together
> - e.g. multiple kits, + additional complementary products in a group) then
> feed over the kits as individual products and the complementary as
> individual products.
>
> Just wondering . . . if the new Assembly BoM as I've described above would
> help in the situation's everyone is describing. And OpenERP would be the
> "Master" of whether an Assembly/BoM operation would need to take place -
> rather than trying to work it around on the Magento side?
>
> See the attached spec as an intro . . .
>
> David Mitchell
>
>
>
> 2011/2/11 Guewen Baconnier <guewen.baconnier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <guewen.baconnier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>  You are right, I missed that Magento explode the packs in sale order.
> We had customizations on our last Magento project which misled me.
>
> I agree that the two options should be possible.
>
> Does it could be possible to replace the product type by a function
> field which set the product type as for example :
>  - simple by default
>  - grouped if is a nan_product_pack
>  - grouped if is a BOM
>  - and eventually an optional user choice to force the type
>  - + hooks to implement new types in other modules
>
> I'm not sure that's realistic, but it seems to me that this way we can
> avoid dependencies on both modules.
>
> Otherwise I think indeed you have to remove the inherited code of
> mrp_bom (in our case we removed it because we didn't want our products
> as "grouped product").
>
> Guewen
>
> 2011/2/11 Raphaël Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxx> <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>  On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 4:50 AM, Guewen Baconnier <
>
>  guewen.baconnier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>  Hi all,
>
> I agree with Ana, I think you may need to use a BoM if you really have
>
>  to launch a production order to build the pack.
>
>  @Guewen, @Ana,
>
> I think you missed one point: currently Magento 'grouped products'
>
>  generate Magento sale orders with exploded packs already (I mean Magento
> code dos that natively), much like nan_product_packs.
>
>  So when you pass that order back to OpenERP, OpenERP has no way to find
>
>  out it was originally a pack, no matter what we do on OpenERP side (or do I
> miss something from Magento grouped products?)
>
>  Then, as you get the orders with the components in OpenERP, there is no
>
>  way you trigger a production order, no matter what you do on OpenERP side,
> no matter the way I implement grouped products over MRP BOM's or
> nan_procuct_pack.
>
>  The only way you can trigger a regular production order on OpenERP side
>
>  would be to not set your product has a 'Magento grouped product' and set an
> OpenERP BOM for it.
>
>  Currently this creating a BOM will change the product to a 'grouped
>
>  product', so I'm taking good note that this may not be wanted always.
>
>  So actually, the debate is more if I can drop the mrp module dependency
>
>  from Magentoerpconnect for v6 and depend on nan_product_pack instead which
> is much simpler and which IMHO makes OpenERP simpler to use for the
> beginners. So in that case, the only use of nan_product_packs (could even be
> an option), is that if a product has a pack defined, it will properly be
> exported to Magento as a grouped product along with it's component during
> the regular catalog export task.
>
>   In that case you shouldn't need to create a product_pack and a BoM on
>
>  each grouped product.
>
>  Something should be used on OpenERP side to tell Magento what are the
>
>  components of the 'grouped product' (or else you may just use a regular
> product + a BOM on OpenERP side).
>
>  So my proposal is to use nan_procuct_pack for that.
> It also makes it more consistent if you sale orders from Magento and from
>
>  OpenERP, then both will include all components and look the same.
>
>  @Jan Verlaan
> What you are telling about "Sets/Phantom" BOM's is very interesting.
>
>  Unless I missing something about how Magento deals with 'grouped products',
> this would unfortunately make Magento created orders look different from
> OpenERP created orders (exploded vs not exploded in the sale order), but it
> has the huge advantage of using all native/standard features.
>
>  I'm thinking may be the best would be to support both mrp BOM's the way
>
>  we do (then using it with phantom's BOM's when appropriate) and
> nan_product_packs if present.
>
>  Ideally we would change the code so that it works with both modules but
>
>  without depending on them.
>
>  Currently the technical challenge to do that is we are inheriting the
>
>  'mrp.bom' (in magentoerpconnect/product.py) so that we set the product as
> 'grouped product' on triggering the BOM create method. I don't see how to
> inherit or not selectively depending if those modules are installed...
>
>  A solution would be to create two additional optional modules like
>
>  magentoerpconnect_bom and magentoerpconnect_pack of course. But I should say
> I don't really like that as it's not userfriendly at all to search all those
> modules and figure out what they do (BTW I think OpenERP SA should just do
> that sometimes: make modules able to deal with some other modules without
> depending on them nor creating other microscopic/non knowledgeable modules,
> this specially makes sense for their SaaS prospective).
>
>  So actually, it seems a consensus emerges as: BOM doesn't imply it's a
>
>  Magento 'grouped product' because you may really want to trigger a
> production order on OpenERP side. So I might simply drop that mrp.bom
> inherit code. Then people creating BOM's for products should be aware that
> should also set their product as a 'grouped product' if it has a BOM or a
> NaN pack and if it's really a Magento 'grouped product'.
>
>  Would that make everybody happy?
>
> Raphaël Valyi
> Founder and consultant
> +55 21 3010 9965www.akretion.com
>
>  --
> Guewen Baconnier
>
> Business Developer
> Business Solutions
> Camptocamp SA
> PSE A, CH-1015 Lausanne
> http://openerp.camptocamp.com/
>
> Phone: +41 21 619 10 39
> Office: +41 21 619 10 10
> Fax: +41 21 619 10 00
> Email: guewen.baconnier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~magentoerpconnect-community
> Post to     : magentoerpconnect-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~magentoerpconnect-community
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-production
> Post to     : openerp-expert-production@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-production
>
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-production
> Post to     : openerp-expert-production@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-production
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Ana Juaristi Olalde
Director Avanzosc, S.L.
Servicios Profesionales OpenERP
www.anajuaristi.com
www.openerpsite.com
www.avanzosc.com
Skype: avanzosc
677 93 42 59 - 943 02 69 02