ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive
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ubuntu-phone team
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Message #22245
Re: Canonical branded phone?
For the record, I just bought and flashed Ubuntu Touch on a Meizu Pro 5 -
very possible, and not that hard to do. Cheers,
Hi Mitchell now thats good news. I scanned xda a while back and read there
was still problems doing that. Could you point me to some details?
On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 5:22 AM, Mitchell Reese <dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> For the record, I just bought and flashed Ubuntu Touch on a Meizu Pro 5 -
> very possible, and not that hard to do. Cheers,
>
> M
>
> On 12/09/16 13:14, Mathijs Veen wrote:
>
>> Well I am not quite that pessimistic Bob,
>>
>> I am just saying if no oems are doing a new Ubuntu phone any time soon,
>> you would need a relatively current reference device that is stable. Just
>> to tide every one over till that time does come again. Say an N5 or N6. I
>> congratulate you on getting your hands on an MX5. I was just a week too
>> late on that one. Completely surprised at such a limited run. I would take
>> it of your hands if you' re ditching it :)
>>
>> It wasn’t my intention to bash the project to death at all. I do actually
>> believe in the possibility of breaking into the status quo. If the
>> proposition is good enough. And I still believe UT can be that. I recently
>> did a live head-to-head on comparison with a hp windows continuum phone.
>> And Ubuntu won on some major points hands down. Convergence is pretty awsum
>> already and the design is as good as any phone I have owned.
>>
>> But i think Canonical can't afford to lose the base of users it has now.
>> So they need a reliable device coming from somewhere.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 3:07 AM, Bob Summerwill <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Great summary, Mathijs,
>>
>> I have been using first a Meizu MX4 and then a Meizu MX5 Pro
>> successfully here in Vancouver, Canada as my daily driver.
>>
>> But in the absence of real devices, there is little point in the
>> project continuing. It would just be a drain of limited funding
>> for Canonical, who have plenty of other important projects which
>> need their focus.
>>
>> It is indeed a bitter pill to swallow, but unlike other open
>> source projects which can continue indefinitely as long as there
>> are people with itches to scratch, for Ubuntu Touch and other
>> mobile OSes there is a real co-dependency between hardware and
>> specific software. You aren't making software which can run on any
>> x86 chip, as is the case for much of the desktop world.
>>
>> Without supported hardware, it is pointless. Well, you could
>> support the emulators indefinitely, but that isn't producing any
>> real value in itself.
>>
>> The same situation has already led to the demise of MeeGo, Firefox
>> OS and a trial-by-fire for Sailfish OS. And the zombie state of
>> Windows Phone, for that matter. Blackberry OS is on death's door
>> as well. You need to achieve critical mass, or you die.
>>
>> Withdrawing to just tablets is another option, because it removes
>> the whole wireless modem stack and carriers from the picture.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Mathijs Veen
>> <mathijsv33n@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:mathijsv33n@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> (Jo-Erlend, I think you are missing the point: There aren't
>> any phones for new user to get. But worse: there are no phones
>> for active users/developers to replace theirs if broken. There
>> haven’t been for quite some time. That's bad because it is
>> really hampering community involvement, let alone growing it).
>>
>> If I may boil the discussion down:
>>
>> The last Ubuntu phone that went to market (in very limited
>> numbers and for a very short time) was in back in April.
>> Today, virtually no one in this thread is expecting another
>> official Ubuntu device any time soon.
>> No one knows this for sure but quite a bitter pill if true.
>> Question is: what do we do now?
>>
>> The thread provides a few options:
>>
>> 1) A Canonical phone.
>> I would say the least likely, if not a daydream. Most of the
>> reasons for that have been listed above. Canonical just isn't
>> a hardware company.
>>
>> 2) Return to the Nexus line again as reference devices.
>> This could work to keep the project -and especially community
>> involvement- alive in the short term. But Canonical would have
>> to pick some of the current Nexus models to enable and
>> maintain again. Without that -ie having to muddle on with the
>> N4- will soon have most ppl jump ship. As per a lot of
>> previous comments and also my own experience: the N4 is just a
>> little too underpowered for convergence over the wire and will
>> never support wireless convergence anyway. The N4 is the only
>> Nexus reference device left and it is hopelessly outdated.
>> Also they are indeed ridiculously prone to breakage.
>>
>> 3) A community port
>> I have been following the ubports project basically since it
>> started and especially Marius has been doing a massive job.
>> However: the number of different devices has, imho, been
>> spread out too wide and funding has been far too thin.
>> The only way I believe this could possibly work is this:
>> Assuming we get indication that 1 and 2 are not going to
>> happen, we have to organise some kind of community vote where
>> we decide on one, or at most two, devices that are going to be
>> ported for ut for the coming 1.5-2 years. We focus and rally
>> for funding and community time and knowlegde on that phone and
>> stick with it. We get people to see that spreading all that
>> porting effort over all those devices (see
>> https://devices.ubports.com/#/) isnt going to get us a stable
>> UT phone for the short and mid term. Let us call it a
>> community reference device.
>> And I wont mind adding that I agree with some in this thread
>> that the Fairphone2 should be a strong candidate for this. But
>> that is for a separate discussion.
>>
>> Some final personal thoughts.
>> I have tried to be as involved as my time and knowledge
>> allowed me since very early on in the project. I first flashed
>> a Galaxy Nexus (remember Maguro guys?) in October 2013. I have
>> been using, discussing, promoting, testing, bug reporting and
>> even doing a limited bit of programming for UT ever since.
>> Most of you all have similar stories. And I still believe in
>> the project. Actually, today more then ever.
>>
>> But this is the first time I am thoroughly worried for the
>> future of the Ubuntu converged desktop/phone/tablet.
>>
>> Sure, Ubuntu core and Unity8 will continue but will obviously
>> will take very different routes than if there were well
>> maintained real-world devices around that developers and early
>> adopters could use. For one thing: who's gonna build apps for
>> a system that doesn't have any actual phones?
>>
>> One last reason I am worried: Because during this, and some
>> other mail-threads and other channel discussions lately, there
>> has been almost dead silence from the Ubuntu Community
>> Management on this.
>>
>> I know they are in a difficult position in this because it is
>> probably impossible for them to come out and say: yeah guys,
>> regrettably there aren't going to be any new devices on the
>> market any time soon. Nevertheless, If that is the case one
>> would think that working with this community to bridge some
>> bad times with either a new official reference device or a
>> focused, mutual effort from Canonical and community developers
>> on a port could be the best course to take to keep this thing
>> alive.
>>
>> So (still operating on the sad assumption that no new device
>> will appear on the market any time soon) : If none of the
>> above scenarios get any traction, I will -with pain in my
>> heart- be forced to say goodbye to Ubuntu touch as the phone I
>> have been using for the past 3 years. Just because there isn't
>> any.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mathijs
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad
>> <joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> Why are you even asking if Meizu of Bq has lost interest?
>> Do you know something I don't? The point was to produce a
>> small number of phones for people who really want it and
>> knows why. Developers and enthusiasts. This was announced
>> as the strategy from the very beginning, long before there
>> were any phones to be bought. Ubuntu for phones hasn't
>> been announced as ready for mainstream and it isn't. Now
>> we have quite a few people using Ubuntu on phones and
>> providing feedback and software, building a community.
>> That takes time. Hopefully, more developers and Ubuntu
>> enthusiasts want the phone when they see feedback from
>> existing users. Then it might be time for another small
>> batch of phones, expanding the community and increasing
>> the guerilla marketing.
>>
>> One of the worst things that could happen, was if curious
>> people got the impression that it was ready for mainstream
>> and got one, only to be disappointed and then running
>> around on social media talking about how bad it is. People
>> who really understand the project, however, knows it's a
>> WIP and they're not so put off by its limitations. These
>> are good ambassadors.
>>
>> There's lots of stuff that must be done. For instance, it
>> would make sense to switch Ubuntu for phones to Snap
>> rather than Click. And of course, the big USP for Ubuntu
>> for phones, is it's ability to function as a desktop as
>> well. But that doesn't really work yet. For now, Ubuntu
>> for phones is better off being a geeky thing.
>>
>> What's the hurry?
>>
>> On 8 September 2016 at 05:58, mark <j.m.holmes@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:j.m.holmes@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> If Meizu and bq have lost interest in the platform,
>> and are really not planning to build new phones then,
>> perhaps enthusiasts - of which there seem to be no
>> shortage - should go down the Fairphone route, and
>> crowd-source a small run of devices, designed for
>> Ubuntu and produced by an OEM. I don't know what the
>> run of the Meizu or bq phones amounted to, but surely
>> say ~20,000 high-spec Ubuntu phones could be sold?
>>
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>> On 07/09/16 17:53, Mitchell Reese wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 8 September 2016 4:47:42 AM AEST, Bob
>>> Summerwill <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> <mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are OEMs not queuing up to ship devices running
>>>>>> Touch?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I suspect that the answer to that is "no".
>>>>
>>>> If, as seems likely, both BQ and Meizu have no
>>>> immediate plans to ship
>>>> further Ubuntu Touch devices then that likely means
>>>> that it is not
>>>> economically beneficial to them to do so. That
>>>> certainly isn't an
>>>> appealing market for other OEMs to join.
>>>> Canonical would likely be
>>>> pouring their money down the drain with such a device.
>>>>
>>>> Mozilla went through a very similar journey with
>>>> Firefox OS, though with
>>>> way more devices and way more traction. They ended
>>>> up giving up on the
>>>> device side, and focusing on just community ports,
>>>> and on application of
>>>> the OS to new (non-mobile) markets.
>>>>
>>>> Mobile is a tough, tough market to compete with.
>>>> Commodity Android
>>>> devices are very, very compelling to the mass
>>>> market. Mobile Linux is a
>>>> really niche. See the troubles Jolla have
>>>> experienced too. Even
>>>> Samsung are struggling to make any kind of impact
>>>> with Tizen - though that
>>>> likely has more to do with their own internal
>>>> politics than any lack of
>>>> resourcing or ability to sell large volumes.
>>>>
>>>> My personal feeling is that mobile is now "mature",
>>>> and uninteresting, like
>>>> the PC market. Who really cares if you have an
>>>> ASUS or an Acer or a HP or
>>>> whatever. They have razor-thin markets and little
>>>> differentiation. I
>>>> think that is where mobile is getting to be, with
>>>> Android as the Windows,
>>>> and iOS as the Mac. So iOS is premium and
>>>> profitable, "because Apple",
>>>> but Android is the de-facto standard, commodity and
>>>> unprofitable. That
>>>> is a really unappealing place to try to build a
>>>> third platform.
>>>>
>>>> Android has utterly skewed manufacturing too, to my
>>>> understanding, so that
>>>> if you want to get a SoC now, you are going to get
>>>> Android bootloaders and
>>>> drivers on it. As blobs. And you're just going
>>>> to have to suck that up.
>>>> Want X11 drivers? No way.
>>>>
>>>> Tizen is the only mobile Linux which hasn't just
>>>> made the pragmatic choice
>>>> of avoiding the issue by using Hybris. For
>>>> everybody else, Android has
>>>> become the de-facto HAL :-)
>>>>
>>>> So yeah... I have an MX5 Pro as my daily driver and
>>>> love it. MX4 before
>>>> that. But I don't have much hope of any future
>>>> Ubuntu Touch mobile
>>>> devices. I think we're likely walking dead, but
>>>> just haven't stopped
>>>> walking yet.
>>>>
>>>> So maybe Jolla and Tizen are the "last men standing"
>>>> in this space? For
>>>> mobile profile, at least. Tablets are a different
>>>> story. Ditto IoT and
>>>> Ubuntu Snappy Core.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 10:49 AM, mark
>>>> <j.m.holmes@xxxxxx> <mailto:j.m.holmes@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> The same thought had crossed my mind. Touch seems
>>>>> to be reaching the point
>>>>> of maturity where something of the Edge's specs
>>>>> might come to fruition. It
>>>>> would be a winner, imho.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are OEMs not queuing up to ship devices running Touch?
>>>>>
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/09/16 14:32, Art wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Question.......
>>>>>
>>>>> I read all the comments, and I am now curious.....
>>>>>
>>>>> What is to stop Canonical from releasing their own
>>>>> branded phones right
>>>>> now?? Just because the current 'offering' isn't
>>>>> Canonical branded, Is there
>>>>> anything that prevents them from selling a
>>>>> Canonical branded phone later
>>>>> on??
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, now we know that a linux based phone
>>>>> actually works, what is to
>>>>> stop Canonical (or even myself) from seeking out an
>>>>> independent phone OEM,
>>>>> buying them in bulk and rebranding them, complete
>>>>> with the linux software
>>>>> already installed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Great list all, I hope to see the linux phone
>>>>> succeed! It's about time we
>>>>> take back control of our own phones and block all
>>>>> the 'features' that rob
>>>>> us of our privacy!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Art
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/05/2016 10:49 AM, Krzysztof Tataradziński wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Did anyone from Canonical considered to 'simply'
>>>>> develop phone themselves
>>>>> alone, order it in factory and sell with Canonical
>>>>> brand?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Mailing list:
>>>>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm. Disagree - thanfully. Otherwise, whats the
>>> point? Similar arguments when Microsoft was still a
>>> thing - why compete?
>>>
>>> The thing about Ubuntu is it's also a desktop system
>>> - and has the potential to be much more. Will be
>>> interesting to see where this goes, but I'm backing
>>> Canonical.
>>> M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
Follow ups
References
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Canonical branded phone?
From: Krzysztof Tataradziński, 2016-09-05
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Art, 2016-09-07
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: mark, 2016-09-07
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Mitchell Reese, 2016-09-07
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: mark, 2016-09-08
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Jo-Erlend Schinstad, 2016-09-11
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Mathijs Veen, 2016-09-11
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Bob Summerwill, 2016-09-12
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Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Mathijs Veen, 2016-09-12
-
Re: Canonical branded phone?
From: Mitchell Reese, 2016-09-12
