unity-design team mailing list archive

[Omar B. <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

@Adrian

I think the issues you and other people are experiencing could be sum up in a few bugs that need reporting:

1- Filters: show them by default; proposal by Jo-Erlend : https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08031.html

2- An easier default view when showing/scrolling all apps: Alan Bell: https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08005.html

3- Zoom in / out: (already submitted bug); https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08027.html

4- Apps available for download: These suggestions are useful for *searches* or after clicking on specific filters/categories, but not 
when showing all (as it becomes too random). It should always show most relevant first and a link to "get more apps" could 
also be shown.

5- Recent apps: This is now in the home lens too, so is kind of duplicating. It could be kept in the apps lens, but it could be *fully collapsible* (instead of 1 row semi-expanded) to hide it fully if the user doesn't want it.


This could become some sort of multi-bug report or is better to keep them separate ?


> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:01:07 +0200
> From: syraxes@xxxxxxxxx
> To: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx
> CC: unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status of	Unity
> 
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 13:17, pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Dear Adrian,
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> Wow ,  that's a shocking suggestion :  in order to see what's
> >> available I need to start an application.
> >> And this is supposed to be a progress compared to the old-style
> >> desktop environments that can display a quick list of categories
> >> without external software.
> >
> > The Dash is part of Unity just like the "Application menu" is part of
> > Gnome 2.
> 
> > From the user point of view there isn't a new application to open.
> 
> What do you mean by that ?
> 
> 
> >> I'd really like to understand the rationale against the idea of having
> >> some sort of applications browser that is usable like an old-style
> >> Applications menu    :    see a list of categories and be able to see
> >> the contents of a category WITHOUT clicking on anything.
> >>
> >
> > You still have an application browser, the only difference, as you
> > said, is that you need to click on the categories, instead of just
> > moving the mouse.
> 
> It's more than that  :    it's also a problem with how the results are
> displayed.
> 
> After clicking on a category it shows only one row of applications .
> In order to see all of them i have to click on "see more N results" .
> 
> This gives me a constant feeling that  "probably there are more things
> in there  that i don't know about " .
> 
> The "Apps available for Download"  are eating much too space.   And as
> a result the user is forced to "See more results"   after every filter
> search .
> 
> 
> 
> >> Please believe me that in gnome2 or xfce   I use the apps menu a lot .
> >>  It's easy enough so that i rarely feel the need to create shortcuts
> >> on a panel.   Every application has it's own well defined place inside
> >> the menu.
> >>
> >
> > Here is the key for your discomfort. You are used to open your
> > applications using the menu and did not like the idea of typing the
> > name (or description) in the Dash. One of the main characteristics of
> > the Dash, IMHO, is that the best way to find an application using it
> > is by typing Super+"name or description of the application" instead of
> > using the mouse until pointing the right place. You should give it a
> > try, it is much faster than using a mouse and you'll get much faster
> > after one of two days. If you insist on using only the mouse, than the
> > Dash is certainly not a good choice for you.
> 
> The source of discomfort is that navigating around applications
> categories is clunky .
> 
> Let's imagine that the user clicks on a category   (even though in a
> classic apps menu it's enough to hover) .
> 
> After clicking i don't immediately see the entire list of application
> is that category !
> The screen is cluttered with:  recent results ,  "see more N results"
>  ,  and "apps available to download" .
> This is like a click-click  puzzle game  with colourful  icons , not
> efficient browsing .
> 
> 
> The first version of the Unity  (the netbook remix  10.10 if i
> remember correctly)   used to present the applications in a nicer way
> :   there was a big list with all the applications  divided into
> categories .    It required some scrolling ,  but was better than what
> i see now in 12.04.  At least I could quickly form an idea about what
> application are installed  !
> 
> 
> >> Hmm...   perhaps this is what irritates me about searching/filtering
> >> in the Dash :   when using these filters there is too much visual
> >> noise (huge icons ,   see more 666 results  ,  apps available for
> >> download )    and a particular application will never appear in the
> >> same place on the screen .
> >> The visual clutter gives me a constant feeling that I never know
> >> what's available for use .
> >
> > But 99% of the time you know exactly what you want to open. You know
> > you want to open firefox, or thunderbird (or e-mail application), or
> > Writter, or emacs. Just time its name, it is fast and usually you'll
> > get a single option after 3 or for letters.
> 
> When installing a new version of an operating system,   it's
> interesting to look around and see what new applications are available
> by default .
> 
> The Dash doesn't offer a comfortable solution for discovering
> (browsing) what's available .
> It's a fancy-looking search that requires 3D graphic acceleration ,
> nothing more .
> 
> 
> Oh,  and by the way :    when filtering for "All"  applications ,
> the results don't display the categories anymore .
> 
> 
> > Where I think the Dash fails is for people that can't really type. I
> > have two children, one is 5 and the other one is 8. The one with 5
> > learned to recognize the word "Game" from the old Gnome 2 menu and
> > then to click on it (or hover ) to see the list of games. Now with the
> > Dash he needs first to click on "Filter" (and this does not seem
> > natural all for him). It would be nice to be able to have the list of
> > categories always open as an option.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Paulo
> >
> >
> >>
> >>> Now, neither piece may yet be ideal, but we should improve the design of
> >>> those pieces for their specific purposes, not try to make everything do
> >>> everything.
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 22/02/12 15:29, Adrian Maier wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 17:19, nick rundy<nrundy@xxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The problem is having to "expand" options, like the "See more results"
> >>>>> option. Too much stuff is being crammed into the dash.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For example, on the Applications Lens, users should be able to use
> >>>>> setting
> >>>>> to configure it so that it ONLY shows the applications installed on the
> >>>>> machine. And by default shows ALL results. This way the user doesn't have
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> click so many things to get an expanded view of Applications. Also the
> >>>>> filters should not have to be expanded (which I believe is the case in
> >>>>> 12.04)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> @Adrian:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> if the Applications Lens defaults to show all stuff by default, then
> >>>>> Unity
> >>>>> is just as convenient as old-GNOME.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. tap SUPER+A
> >>>>> 2. click GAMES
> >>>>
> >>>> That sounds like  just a workaround for solving a problem that didn't
> >>>> exist before changing  something that used to work well enough  ...
> >>>>
> >>>> If there is a big list with all the applications ,   it implies
> >>>> scrolling in order to find the category and then  finding the
> >>>> application.  Too much visual noise for getting done a simple thing.
> >>>>
> >>>> I really mean that the right solution is to have a real classic menu /
> >>>> list view .
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:39:36 +0200
> >>>>>> From: syraxes@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> To: unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> Subject: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status of
> >>>>>> Unity
> >>>>>> Hello people,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Today I've been curious to see what is the current status of Unity
> >>>>>> compared to the version shipped last year with 11.04.
> >>>>>> So i've installed the Ubuntu daily beta 12.04 in a virtual machine .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The main thing I would like to comment about is : navigation around
> >>>>>> the available applications .
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have chosen a simple task : " let's see what games are installed
> >>>>>> " . Steps :
> >>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
> >>>>>> - looking for the word "categories" on screen. Couldn't find it.
> >>>>>> Finally figured out that "Filter results" might help with my task
> >>>>>> - CLICK on Filter Results
> >>>>>> - CLICK on Games
> >>>>>> - it displays : Aislerot Solitaire , Freecell Solitaire , Mahjongg ,
> >>>>>> Mines
> >>>>>> - hmm. Are there just 4 games installed ? apparently not - there
> >>>>>> is a link "See 1 more result"
> >>>>>> - CLICK on "see 1 more result".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The next task "now let's see what development software is installed" .
> >>>>>> Steps :
> >>>>>> - the screen is still showing the previous screen with the games .
> >>>>>> - CLICK on Developer in "filter results"
> >>>>>> - nothing changes in the search results !
> >>>>>> - CLICK on Games , to deselect
> >>>>>> - the Developer software finally
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Result : after 6 clicks I have been able to see what games and what
> >>>>>> development tools are installed by default in 12.04 beta .
> >>>>>> Too big icons , on a normal display there will always be necessary
> >>>>>> to click on "see more N results".
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Now let's see the steps needed to do the same tasks in Ubuntu 10.04 ,
> >>>>>> gnome 2 :
> >>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
> >>>>>> - move the mouse over "Games" . Read the list of applications.
> >>>>>> - move the mouse over "Programming" . Read the list of applications.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry for ranting , but killing productivity for visual cuteness is
> >>>>>> not progress ...
> >>>>>> It should be possible to have a classical menu with applications
> >>>>>> categories (maybe on right-click on the desktop).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My personal conclusion : the current Unity is just as disappointing
> >>>>>> as last year.
> >>>>>> Starting an application multiple times seems to be handled ok now
> >>>>>> (useful particularly for terminals).
> >>>>>> But there is still zero configurability (in settings ->  appearance
> >>>>>> the user can only change the wallpaper and autohide the launcher .
> >>>>>> Quite hilarious in a sad way ) .
> >>>>>> No possibility to disable the global menu .
> >>>>>> My main showstopper : no classic applications menu.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Adrian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >>>>>> Post to : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Adrian M
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paulo José da Silva e Silva
> > Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
> > (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
> > Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil
> >
> > e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web: http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Adrian M
> 
> -- 
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
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