Re: [Ayatana] "Hybrid" (panel/launcher) top left corner button

[Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx>]

Well, what can I say, I'm extremely surprised that "there is nothing
to be fixed" is your (or whoever's) conclusion and I respectfully
disagree. I guess I'll leave you with your content for now and be back
when you find what's wrong and are looking for new ideas...

Eylem


On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I understand your proposal. I think the behavior is too complex. There are
> too many conditions regard when to show the launcher and when to show the
> window buttons that it's too confusing for many users. It also doesn't make
> the Ubuntu button any easier to access, since you still need to aim (for the
> launcher, since you can't touch the dash).
> My earlier point stands; the initial problems brought up when this thread
> was created are now solved, and there doesn't need to be a fix.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:17, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Ian,
>> There may be many if's to describe a use cases but it does not mean
>> the design is inconsistent, or complex to use. Please pay attention to
>> what I'm describing with those if's. They're only for the
>> implementation of the design, not for the user to memorize. There is
>> nothing to learn for the user, but the design has to be able
>> understand (infer) user intention from user action. That's why there
>> are those if's.  It's easy to negate others' ideas but I think more
>> time should be spent on understanding them...
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > No, I don't think it would. It may provide a workaround, but there are
>> > too
>> > many if's, which could be inconsistent if the user doesn't know exactly
>> > what
>> > they're doing. I think if the actions of the dash and launcher can't be
>> > explained in one paragraph, then it's too complex.
>> > The current iteration of Unity one of the major issues with the revised
>> > design: visual distinction from the rest of the launcher items. The
>> > other
>> > issue, isn't a problem because the super key can be used to invoke the
>> > dash
>> > instantly anyway.
>> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:46, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ian,
>> >> Do you think my proposal in the previous message could address those
>> >> issues?
>> >> I think it would but I'm no expert...
>> >>
>> >> Eylem
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Because the window controls should have gone in the corner, and the
>> >> > Usability testing did show that people were clicking on the top icon
>> >> > in
>> >> > the
>> >> > launcher to try and open the dash.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:34, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> OK, sorry, I got it wrong it seems. But then, why oh why did the
>> >> >> Ubuntu button have to leave the top left corner? If it did not look
>> >> >> like a button, then make it like a button, not displace it. The OP
>> >> >> includes a very good mockup for example:
>> >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/gandreoliva/hybridbutton
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I really really think that moving the Ubuntu button out of the
>> >> >> very-top-left-corner is a huge mistake.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you really have to place the window control buttons to the
>> >> >> very-top-left-corner, then I have a proposal. This just popped into
>> >> >> my
>> >> >> mind, and goes like this:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - Make the Launcher cover the whole left edge, going over the top
>> >> >> panel at the top left corner. The Ubuntu button (whatever the
>> >> >> design)
>> >> >> is at the top of the Launcher.
>> >> >> - When the cursor is not directed to the top panel, the Launcher
>> >> >> shows
>> >> >> or hides according to normal behavior (dodge, autohide, etc).
>> >> >> - If the Launcher is showing, the window controls on the left of the
>> >> >> top panel are hidden, the active-app name (and title?) is displayed
>> >> >> on
>> >> >> the top panel (starting from where the window controls would end)
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> the appmenu is hidden.
>> >> >> --- While the Launcher is showing, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE TOP PANEL
>> >> >> BEFORE IT HITS THE LAUNCHER, then the Launcher hides, the window
>> >> >> controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user
>> >> >> can interact.
>> >> >> --- While the Launcher is showing, the user can activate Dash by
>> >> >> either clicking on the Ubuntu button or by pushing the cursor to top
>> >> >> left corner (second part should be a user configurable option).
>> >> >> - If the Launcher is somehow hidden, and the cursor is NOT on the
>> >> >> top
>> >> >> panel, the window controls are replaced by an Ubuntu logo
>> >> >> (monochrome
>> >> >> ala 11.04), followed (towards right) by the active-app name (and
>> >> >> title?). Note: this Ubuntu logo is not clickable.
>> >> >> --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR FIRST HITS THE TOP
>> >> >> PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LEFT EDGE, then the window controls and the
>> >> >> appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact.
>> >> >> --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE LEFT EDGE
>> >> >> FIRST, the Ubuntu logo on top gracefully grows into a button of its
>> >> >> own, while (at the same time) the Launcher fades and/or slides into
>> >> >> view (very nice visual attractions can be achieved here). Once the
>> >> >> Launcher is shown, the user can click anywhere outside, at which
>> >> >> instant, the Launcher and the Ubuntu button fade out of view kind of
>> >> >> in a reverse visual effect.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (If anyone can make a mockup of this, I'd really appreciate it)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I strongly suggest that Canonical and other decision makers consider
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> design of this sorts, and not move the Ubuntu button completely out
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> the very-top-corner. I'm certain a compromise (as above suggestion)
>> >> >> that is clever ans usable can be achieved between window controls
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> Ubuntu button.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas
>> >> >> <mpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> >> >> > Hash: SHA1
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Eylem Koca wrote on 27/08/11 03:49:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The current design is justified by the motivation to move the
>> >> >> >> window
>> >> >> >> control buttons to the top left.
>> >> >> >> Apparently, the usability tests for 11.04 design showed that the
>> >> >> >> window controls are better on the top left, so they moved the
>> >> >> >> Ubuntu
>> >> >> >> button out of that location.
>> >> >> >>...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > No, the usability test didn't show anything like that. (How could
>> >> >> > it
>> >> >> > have, when the test environment used only one placement?)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > What it did show was that, except for a bug, everyone managed to
>> >> >> > close a
>> >> >> > window. However, 4 of 11 people clicked the Me menu thinking it
>> >> >> > might
>> >> >> > be
>> >> >> > the close button.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > - --
>> >> >> > mpt
>> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> >> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>> >> >> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > iEYEARECAAYFAk5c57wACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqBwACdGwSiKNTl4R4mGFP2XxM/VNSk
>> >> >> > LS0An2j+62m/nhfiU7eQovY2naYb0A3T
>> >> >> > =5qUv
>> >> >> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> > Post to     : ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> Post to     : ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Ian Santopietro
>> >> >
>> >> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> >> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> >
>> >> > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>> >> >  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>> >> >
>> >> > Pa gur yv y porthaur?
>> >> > Public GPG key
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ian Santopietro
>> >
>> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >
>> > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>> >  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>> >
>> > Pa gur yv y porthaur?
>> > Public GPG key
>> >
>> > (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Santopietro
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>
> Pa gur yv y porthaur?
> Public GPG key
> (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>