elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Cassidy James <c@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Jul 3, 2012 3:19 PM, "Scott Ringwelski" <sgringwe@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Putting the democratic issue aside for a moment, please explain this:
>
> 1. You have said numerous times how you would love to be able to pay your
developers.

That would obviously be very far down the line once elementary is a legal
entity and self-sustainable. As it is, we're greatly indebted to people who
have graciously spent large amounts of money to donate services and
resources. As nice as that is, we won't necessarily be able to rely on them
forever. First we need to be able to operate independently before starting
any sort of a payroll.

> 2. You just mentioned that it's best to have the people most involved in
the topic make the call.

Correct. Organizing elementary as an entity has always been the
responsibility of the Council.

> 3. From this, we can clearly see that developers absolutely should be a
key part of the process of deciding how elementary will handle funding,
donations, etc.

It's not so clear as you imply. We're not paying anyone for anything at
this point. If and when that time comes, we'll deal with that.

> Yet, you somehow think that "this is a web design issue and not something
that needs to be run through you first for approval"? Now that... that is
absurd.

The specific issue is a web design issue, yes. As previously stated, we
should not have to have everyone vote decide upon every decision. For
example, we don't ask the developers for their input on how and where we
should manage ads on the site; the web team is better suited for that and
they make those calls under supervision of the Council.

> Unless you plan to only pay yourself, this is absolutely something that
needs to be run through everybody. In fact, if there was one decision that
the whole elementary team should be involved in, it is this one.

Again, we're not starting any sort of a payroll any time in the immediate
future. Would that be nice? Sure. But neither Dan, myself, other Council
members, nor any contributors are compensated for their efforts at this
point.

We'll definitely listen to feedback once we're a little closer that
reality. Until then, it'd be great to take a minute to remember why we do
what we do. We are all about making the most incredible user experience
available to all. Let's not forget that we all do this in our free time
because we're passionate about design, open source, and community.

Regards,
Cassidy James

>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Daniel Foré <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>
>> Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea.
Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved
in the topic make the call.
>>
>> When we're talking about a decision around our developer story, It's
best to consult with our developers.
>>
>> When we're talking about a decisions around our design story, it's best
to consult with our designers.
>>
>> With our Web story, our web team.
>>
>> Our translations, our (admittedly new) translation team.
>>
>> Requiring that everyone have a say in everything is not only going to
lead to un-informed decisions, but it's going to slow our process way down.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ringwelski <sgringwe@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Dan, are you asking why elementary should follow a democratic,
whole-team decision making process rather than a more centralized decision
making process?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Daniel Foré <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and
responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not always
able to meet every week and discuss every issue.
>>>>
>>>> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something
that needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be interested
to find out from other people why they think we need to directly
democratize our web design or any design for that matter.
>>>>
>>>> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain
time schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not be
aware, but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a
lot of family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended
family. I can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this
Saturday because it's also my mother's birthday.
>>>>
>>>> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any
ill will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов <shnatsel@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
>>>>> taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to
>>>>> settle on something and write a reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all
>>>>> right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an answer to my
>>>>> question.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Foré
>>>>
>>>> elementaryos.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Daniel Foré
>>
>> elementaryos.org
>>
>
>
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