elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Scott Ringwelski <sgringwe@xxxxxxx>]

Dan, what I asked was for you to explain the flaw in your arguments that I
found. Jaap stated it pretty clearly for me:

How is the revenue model just a webdesign decision?

And additionally: Why aren't the developers, who are just as important to
this project, not having the same say in the decision as you.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Daniel Foré <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Sorry I must have misunderstood the question. Can you rephrase it?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Scott Ringwelski <sgringwe@xxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> That did not answer my question at all.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Foré <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> And also has also been said before, absolutely nothing whatsoever is
>>> changing about our monetary model. We're still giving away elementary and
>>> we're still providing a way for people to make donations.
>>>
>>> Today you can download Jupiter for free from the homepage. Today, you
>>> can donate to support elementary from the homepage.
>>>
>>> For the next design, you can download Luna for free from the homepage.
>>> And you can also donate to support elementary from the homepage.
>>>
>>> Nothing has changed from a logistic perspective. The only thing that has
>>> changed is the design of the homepage. That is all.
>>>
>>> We're not changing to a pay-only model. And we don't have significant
>>> enough funds to even discuss how to divide them up at all.
>>>
>>> If did have significant funds, this is absolutely something we'd bring
>>> up to the mailing list as we would want as much input as possible on
>>> figuring out how to decide who gets hired first.
>>>
>>> But the design of the homepage is not something everyone needs to *vote*
>>> on before we can implement it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Scott Ringwelski <sgringwe@xxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Putting the democratic issue aside for a moment, please explain this:
>>>>
>>>> 1. You have said numerous times how you would love to be able to pay
>>>> your developers.
>>>> 2. You just mentioned that it's best to have the people most involved
>>>> in the topic make the call.
>>>> 3. From this, we can clearly see that developers absolutely should be a
>>>> key part of the process of deciding how elementary will handle funding,
>>>> donations, etc. Yet, you somehow think that "this is a web design issue and
>>>> not something that needs to be run through you first for approval"? Now
>>>> that... that is absurd.
>>>>
>>>> Unless you plan to only pay yourself, this is absolutely something that
>>>> needs to be run through everybody. In fact, if there was one decision that
>>>> the whole elementary team should be involved in, it is this one.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Daniel Foré <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes I am. I really think direct-democracy is just a bad idea.
>>>>> Historically, we've made good decisions by having the people most involved
>>>>> in the topic make the call.
>>>>>
>>>>> When we're talking about a decision around our developer story, It's
>>>>> best to consult with our developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> When we're talking about a decisions around our design story, it's
>>>>> best to consult with our designers.
>>>>>
>>>>> With our Web story, our web team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our translations, our (admittedly new) translation team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Requiring that everyone have a say in everything is not only going to
>>>>> lead to un-informed decisions, but it's going to slow our process way down.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Scott Ringwelski <sgringwe@xxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan, are you asking why elementary should follow a democratic,
>>>>>> whole-team decision making process rather than a more centralized decision
>>>>>> making process?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Daniel Foré <daniel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As it turns out, we have families and lives and jobs and
>>>>>>> responsibilities outside of elementary. That means that we're not always
>>>>>>> able to meet every week and discuss every issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my personal opinion, this is a web design issue and not something
>>>>>>> that needs to be run through you first for approval. But I'd be interested
>>>>>>> to find out from other people why they think we need to directly
>>>>>>> democratize our web design or any design for that matter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you're upset because you can't get your demands met on a certain
>>>>>>> time schedule I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You may not be
>>>>>>> aware, but this week celebrates our independence in the US. So there's a
>>>>>>> lot of family flooding in and I'm super busy juggling my very extended
>>>>>>> family. I can guarantee I won't be able to make the meeting again this
>>>>>>> Saturday because it's also my mother's birthday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wish you luck in your next endeavor and hope you don't harbor any
>>>>>>> ill will towards elementary. You're always welcome back at any time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Сергей Давыдов <shnatsel@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay, it's been a week. In addition, a Council meeting should have
>>>>>>>> taken place three days ago. This seems to be quite enough time to
>>>>>>>> settle on something and write a reply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To speed up the discussion, I stop pretending that everything is all
>>>>>>>> right and cease any work on elementary till I receive an answer to
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel Foré
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> elementaryos.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>>>>> Post to     : elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel Foré
>>>>>
>>>>> elementaryos.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Daniel Foré
>>>
>>> elementaryos.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Daniel Foré
>
> elementaryos.org
>
>