kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx>]

But without a tooltip, how is anyone to know that?  The window shows only a single sheet at a time.  One might be forgiven for concluding that the save button will only save the current one.  (Or even worrying that it might, and cycling through all the sheets hitting Save.)

Having a context-sensitive tooltip doesn’t get in the way or add more complexity — it just clarifies the issue for those who don’t know, or those who are worriers.


> On 13 Jan 2018, at 20:10, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Just because a schematic has more than one sheet (file), complex or
> otherwise does not mean we have a different save context.  You are still
> saving the current schematic no matter how may files are involved.
> Please do *not* do this.
> 
> On 01/13/2018 03:06 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
>> You already said the save will save everything, now you want to
>> introduce differentiating icons/tooltips that will add complexity to the
>> most simple tasks that will already do the implied function without the
>> need for clarifying what is sheet and what is hierarchy. No changing
>> tooltips based on single sheet vs hierarchy.
>> 
>> Now that I understand what you are after.
>> 
>> I suggest:
>> Save icon with multiple diskettes (multiple will imply it will save
>> everything, whether it's 1 sheet or hierarchy, the function will save
>> all, so there's no need for a single diskette)
>> Tooltip: ii
>> 
>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>> 
>>    Just to be clear on the context-specific options: the idea is to
>>    make hierarchical schematics a progressive disclosure feature.  So a
>>    less-sophisticated user happy with a one-sheet schematic wouldn’t
>>    have to deal with tooltips and/or icons relating to hierarchies.
>> 
>>    So there would always be a single icon visible at any given time
>>    (and a single function available), but the icon and/or tooltip might
>>    be different depending on the context.
>> 
>> 
>>>    On 13 Jan 2018, at 19:48, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>    <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    The /function/ is always the same: save as many sheets as there
>>>    are.  The only question is how to communicate that to the user.
>>> 
>>>    Your reply sounds like a vote for (a)(ii), although you weren’t
>>>    specific about the tooltip side of things.
>>> 
>>>    Cheers,
>>>    Jeff.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>    On 13 Jan 2018, at 19:23, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>    <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    What is the problem with saving ALL schematics in the project
>>>>    that have been edited, whether it's a 1 sheet or heirarchy sheet
>>>>    project?
>>>>    Are there times when you only want to save that sheet but not the
>>>>    other sheets? If yes, then maybe add 2 save buttons, save and
>>>>    save all, if not then just the save all button
>>>> 
>>>>    I am against using schematic icon with a disk, too much complexity!
>>>> 
>>>>    You should simply use:
>>>>    Disk icon for Save
>>>>    and/or
>>>>    Multi-Disk icon for Save All
>>>> 
>>>>    There is no purpose in indicating that you want to save a
>>>>    schematic in a schematic application when calling for a Save.
>>>> 
>>>>    On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>    <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        The eeschema Save button’s tooltip reads “save schematic
>>>>        /project/” (emphasis mine).  Because of that, it got the
>>>>        project-with-superimposed-disk in the recent icon update.  I
>>>>        don’t think either of those is optimal.
>>>> 
>>>>        There are 3 distinct concepts:
>>>> 
>>>>        1) Kicad projects (containing schematics, PCBs, gerbers, etc.)
>>>>        2) A hierarchy of schematic sheets
>>>>        3) A single schematic sheet
>>>> 
>>>>        The differentiation between (2) and (3) is a bit confusing
>>>>        because the eeschema window only deals with (2) while we
>>>>        represent schemas in the file-system at (3).
>>>> 
>>>>        But we should make every effort not to conflate (1) with
>>>>        (2).  I think the word “project” should be reserved for use
>>>>        in the context of (1).
>>>> 
>>>>        So I can see 4 options for the eeschema Save option:
>>>> 
>>>>        a) sidestep the issue and go with the arrow-to-disk icon (a
>>>>        la pcbnew)
>>>>        b) use a schematic-with-superimposed-disk icon
>>>>        c) use a stacked-schematic-with-superimposed-disk icon (a la
>>>>        the hierarchical-sheet-tool icon)
>>>>        d) context-sensitive schematic or stacked-schematic icon
>>>> 
>>>>        And a few for the tooltip:
>>>> 
>>>>        i) use “save all schematics in hierarchy”
>>>>        ii) use “save schematic(s)” 
>>>>        iii) make it context-sensitive, reading either “save
>>>>        schematic” or “save all schematics in hierarchy”
>>>> 
>>>>        Personally, I think context-sensitivity is appropriate for
>>>>        the tool-tip, but not the icon.  So I’d be inclined to go
>>>>        with (b) or (c) and (iii).
>>>> 
>>>>        As an aside, project files (*.pro) are still using the
>>>>        application icon, rather than the Project icon.  That makes
>>>>        the New Project / New Project from Template / Open Project
>>>>        icons harder to understand.
>>>> 
>>>>        Cheers,
>>>>        Jeff.
>>>> 
>>>>        BTW: I’m happy to help fix up any of these issues….
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    -- 
>>>>    Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>>>    Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to
>>>>    miss the future [JFK]
>>>> 
>>>>    kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>    Live Long and Prosper,
>>>>    Andrey
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
>> future [JFK]
>> 
>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
>> Live Long and Prosper,
>> Andrey
>> 
>> 
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