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Re: Fwd: Grub Install Bug @Lubuntu-10.04 (Distribution Release)
Hi for all !
Excuse me, I was not able a time to answer before: yesterday and today
I did not use email... : (
I have reading the entire thread, see the disparity of views, even far
from a complete understanding of the situation that I described in the
topic (my letter, who that triggered this discussion).
I must confess that I wrote this topic in the middle of night -- after
a couple of hours of fucking with my PC; and it's main point,
eliminating the effects of my Install the Lubuntu 10.04 Release.
Hence, because of fatigue and irritation, my definition or formulating
not clearly (addition issue, my English is not my native language).
But it's possible harshness remarks about just stupidity of my
situation. ("Nothing Personally" (c)...)
But I'm sure if every one of you in the middle of the night came in
the same situation, I am "ready to give teeth" :) that you would use
no less harsh vocabulary... ;)
Now, I shall little more speak on the merits.
As first, the main problem is not that, I quote:
"If he wants to permanently attach this external to his system and let
the system select the option to boot, he can boot up the computer OS,
assuming it is a Linus distro, and do a "sudo grub-install /dev/sda"
on it. Then it will detect the Lubuntu OS on the external and make it
one of the option to boot"
The main problem, as basic, in the fact that OS Installer decided for
me automatically record MBR to a defaults choosed device! Write it as
default, it was choosed sda device. Thus is cause to violating for
normally booting of my Boot Manager, which I has remained on the
primary (such is sda) device, uses for booting many OSs on my PC.
When the fact, at the time, my choosing disk to Install Lubuntu, --
and I just chose as a target to install my new OS just sdb device, --
this is not a cause (say it mildly) to recording MBR to primary
device; and this Installer' behavior is strongly surprised for me
(IMHO, and for other users too).
Especially in combination with the completely correct placement of the
Grub -- into sdb device and on the sdb1 partition. (Now, this is just
automatic choising -- it's automatically on Lubuntu 10.04, opposed to
it from Lucid Ubuntu 10.04, which if remember I asked to choose
accommodation boot -- but this choosing for Grub' placement is quite
reasonable and it's predictable for any users.)
Therefore, a statement in this discussion:
"I do not think it is a bug and I think it is a more fundamental issue
of where he puts his grub..."
- It is correct not reflection of the understanding 'global' situation
about OS' booting, of this community.
For me, the user never been given a choice: haven't choice of where to
write Grub; nor, especially, the possibility of manual selection
strategy, critical to the successful resolution of a potentially
dangerous and destructive operation - the location (device) to record
So, second and most important, IMHO.
If the OS' Installer asks user to manually select a location for
recording MBR or even refuse to record it, then this case did not
there would be described by this "strange" situation (now I'm trying
to soften my expression).
In practice, this might look like this:
(*) Use /dev/sda (default)
( ) Use /dev/sdb
... / / Depend of lenght the list for presents devices...
( ) Not recording the MBR.
For my specific needs, I would choose the last point.
And I remember that several months ago under Xbuntu 10.04 Installer
was be present my this 'true way', and because it I can allowed it not
overwrite my MBR, when I has Installation on my main device. When I
use this OSs on quite complex combination of hard drives on my PC...
Third and last. In the last one year or two, we have rather tendency
to uses "automation" of various operations, including installing and
configuring the OS. This would be very good way, but if it permit
(a) always for any users would be choose to left it and uses manually
intervene this process (have an obvious way to do it);
(b) when chooses automatic settings of the algorithm does not rely
just to the "typical" situation, and only typical as standard
"environment" of PCs, but would have investigated the operating PC'
environment to automatically adjust it, and while the algorithm would
continue to exercise it only when collected environmental data on the
PC will only unequivocally accept just correct solutions. For any
other cases, the user should be offered opportunity to make own
choices just manually. But the automatically collected information
would provide extremely to useful for this user's choices!
(By the way, does not wanting to my brag, I'm wrote it unequivocally:
I had programmer and I active PC user with experience almost 20 years.
And I've seen a lot of rich practice. And in my professional work
stick to just those rules that are outlined above. However, I have
been never still just Linux programming experience, haven't common
software developing for Linux, and simply therefore do not have
capabilities -- for my time and effort -- to be aware of all details
of the subsystem Linux OS. So, excuse me, the community of
professional developers of Linux!)
Here are the basics of my "claims", in particular to algorithms of
some modern OS subsystems, which are now, more and more has been just
"automated" totally... and because it do not leave to any users to
possibility of manual choosing, described me. And such situation is
not standard for an user, but can be successfully resolved him
emerging problem uses manual control, in particular, uses it for known
stage of installing the OS.
By the way... For long time sometimes to my horror, when I can imagine
a truly apocalyptic situation, who is possible of emergency, such as
cause of development's mind to "total automation" for all, will can be
works on most of the life-support technical systems, throughout uses
Once again, I'm sorry for possibly overly emotional tone of my remarks!