openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Ovnicraft <ovnicraft@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>  * OpenERP isn't able to sync easily with another OpenERP instance to have
>> 2 server, one for e-commerce, one for ERP. It's more easy to do though than
>> sync 2 different systems you're right, but nothing concrete exists today.
>>
>
>
> base_synchro exists and works. It's not perfect, it's very complex, it's
> painful, but it works.
> But I think that syncing OpenERP-Magento is the same pain, whether it's
> with your connectors or others community modules. Does it work
> out-of-the-box by non developers? There will always be some tricky features
> that will require tricky devs.
>
>
>  * OpenERP scale well (saas is the proof), but still we face performance
>> issue quite often in our important project. By putting OpenERP as a front
>> and back end on a same server can have dramatical issue regarding the
>> company's operations, I will not take that risk for my important (in terms
>> of orders/users) customers at this stage.
>>
>
> Yes, but I think most performance issue are fixed on v8.
>
> Again, I am not telling OpenERP is perfect. I just say that you will also
> have performance issues with Magento (or others) and probably more than
> with OpenERP. We fixed all performance issues EVER reported at OpenERP SA.
> (some are only fixed in v8, like POS and stock related ones)
>
>
>>  * OpenERP has less code. That is good, easier to maintain, that's great.
>> Now, lot's of feature are today missing compare to other e-commerce
>> platform: bundle product (like Dell computer configuration),
>> multi-dimensional variant (and I'm speaking here of their configuration and
>> day-to-day use, try to change a variant of T-shirt with color, size and
>> logo), cross-selling, up-selling, etc.. But we need a start right ? And in
>> that you did something huge, as you said this is v1.0, it's amazing, but it
>> hasn't yet all features that other have today.
>>
>
> I think you don't know what openerp provides by default: variants are
> working, cross-selling too, up-selling too.
>
> And they are plenty of things that OpenERP do and Magento don't. Most of
> the features announced for magento 2 are already in OpenERP: SEO optimized,
> page designer, support for huge number of products, better modularity, ...
>

@Fabien: a Q here: SEO will affect other apps in my instance ?


Regards,


> But do you manage all these features with Magento connectors? If OpenERP
> don't manage it, you will not get it working with a connector too.
>
>
> Seriously, this discussion is too subjective to be constructive.
>
> What will matter is how much productive are you to deploy
> CMS-eCommerce-ERP with either Magento+OpenERP+Connector or just OpenERP.
> (including time needed to develop missing features).
>
>  * OpenERP E-Commerce will I'm sure fit big company needs in the future,
>> but today it doesn't.
>>
>
> No. Sorry, I don't agree.
> You say that, but you don't know what's inside OpenERP eCommerce.
>
> It does support big companies as much as Magento does. (and probably even
> more)
>
>
>
>> It doesn't means your new module isn't great and bring new rules and
>> standards in the place and for that I love it !
>>
>
> You can try to categorize OpenERP eCommerce for small companies.
> But do that at your own risks.
>
> Others partners that will deploy OpenERP eCommerce will be more
> competitive than those that go with Magento+OpenERP+Connector.
>
> If you want to claim OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, please
> have real arguments "It's too slow with X products or Y orders, while
> Magento is fast", "it miss this features that costs more to develop than
> the deployment cost of the connector", ...
>
>
> Overall, I think it's a waste of time to try to convince each others.
>
> On your side: You should test it, and judge based on your tests. (or,
> better, sell it to firsts customers and judge based on ROI)
> On my side: I should release something so great that there will be no
> discussion anymore. (including on the security layer)
>
>
> Fabien
>
>
>
>> Joël
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>  * When you're facing hundreds of orders a days and thousands visitors,
>>>> you'll not succeed to have it all in one instance. Imagine, who will block
>>>> his operation because they have too much click on their front-end ? Fors
>>>> that reason (and security if you matter about), you'll prefer 2 servers.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't agree AT ALL.
>>>
>>>   - OpenERP is built to scale (*)
>>>   - A full featured OpenERP will be much faster than Magento or
>>> Prestashop
>>>
>>> You point is only valid if magento or prestashop are faster and allow to
>>> scale more than OpenERP. But it's actually the opposite!
>>>
>>> Why will OpenERP be always faster than MagentoCommerce and Prestashop.
>>> Because it's much simpler and, thus, much easier to optimize. Just check
>>> the number of lines of code:
>>>   - OpenERP (with ALL modules: CRM, Accounting, WMS, eCommerce, Events,
>>> ...): 150k lines of code, only 15k for CMS+eCommerce+events
>>>   - Magento (WITHOUT any module, version 1.8): 918k lines of code
>>>   - Prestashop (WITHOUT any module): 257k lines of code
>>>
>>> So, at equivalent-features, OpenERP has around 10x less lines of code.
>>> One is easier to optimize and scale and the others are not :)
>>> It's not because we do more that we are more complex or slower.
>>>
>>>
>>> (*) all massive read operations are O(1), we fine tuned it for huge
>>> transactions. Only one module was a bottleneck to scale huge sales, it's
>>> "stock", and its refactoring for v8 makes it become super fast and its
>>> speed is not anymore dependent on the number of historic transactions.
>>>
>>> Our SaaS servers already manages millions of documents per server,
>>> without any issues. Try to do that with Magento.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  * base_synchro is clearely not an option to separate 2 OpenERP
>>>> servers. It's has simply been abandoned by OpenERP for good reasons IMO
>>>> (bad design, to many troubles in real uses cases, no atomic transaction to
>>>> inappropriate to sync ERP datas).
>>>>
>>>
>>> base_synchro is not perfect. We still use it on some projects. We
>>> removed it from v7 because we think it's nor for end-users as it's too
>>> complex but it helped us a lot. Camptocamp's connector may be an option too.
>>>
>>> My point is not to use this or that, but: it's much easier to sync
>>> OpenERP with OpenERP rather than OpenERP with something else.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> * This included ecommerce is a great step forward and people will love
>>>> it. But other e-commerce platform (like Magento, Prestashop and lot's of
>>>> others) have years of experience and devs behind them. They provide lot's
>>>> of advance products, sales and scaling features that you will not found in
>>>> OpenERP E-commerce yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's actually their main issue! They have years of technical debt.
>>> They became bloated and have difficulties to evolve.
>>>
>>>
>>> * In case you're running a important e-commerce solution, I think you
>>>> will definitely keep 2 tools and use a connector in-between (like
>>>> https://code.launchpad.net/openerp-connector)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For others purposes, like HR & recruitment, events publication and more,
>>>> this new feature is clearly a big advantage. It will also serve small
>>>> companies for their first e-commerce experience and that's great ! This is
>>>> also a first step in the direction of having one tools to rules front and
>>>> back end together. But I cannot reasonably imagine it's viable for middle
>>>> to large companies currently.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you think OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, you are missing
>>> the point completly. OpenERP is designed to handle big companies need, much
>>> more than current eCommerce software. We are only at v1 and I bet we can
>>> already serve big companies much better than Magento. I think that if we do
>>> a list of features, OpenERP has more green marks, even on v1!
>>>
>>>
>>> Side note: our videos emphasized on useability and simple interface. It
>>> does not mean that we don't handle complex/advanced needs. It's OpenERP
>>> afterall :)
>>>
>>> Another way to view this: the eCommerce module is only 2600 lines of
>>> code. Even if something is missing in v1, it's a piece of cake to add a new
>>> feature on such a clean structure. (and you don't have to learn a new
>>> language/framework)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  module and ported to v7.  There is an outstanding merge request in to
>>>>> server-env-tools on v7 branch which as yet has not been reviewed.  So
>>>>> if you require this functionality then please test it and get it
>>>>> merged.
>>>>>
>>>>> It adds a new module, base_synchro_auto for automating
>>>>> synchronisation, automatic population of fields with boolean style
>>>>> selection of fields to sync.  There is a third module which I am
>>>>> trying to work out how to make generic which is an initialisation and
>>>>> configuration module for existing databases which will match up all
>>>>> the existing matching records prior to syncing.
>>>>>
>>>>> It won't do translations AFAIK (although maybe syncing the
>>>>> ir_translations table does it, I don't know), but forms a good base
>>>>> upon which to extend.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://code.launchpad.net/~gdgellatly/server-env-tools/base-synchro-7.0/+merge/200127
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Mariano Ruiz <mrsarm@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Fabien says:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules
>>>>> like
>>>>> > base_synchro to sync them)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But, the base_synchro module is not supported any more from the 6.1
>>>>> version.
>>>>> > We use this to sync two OpenERP 6.1 instance, and we found a lot of
>>>>> bug in
>>>>> > this module. A special error related for this discussion: the module
>>>>> not
>>>>> > sync translatable fields! only export the original value, without
>>>>> > translations.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > We report this, but the response was: "base_synchro" doesn't exist
>>>>> anymore
>>>>> > on trunk and in stable release 7.0, So this issue doesn't affect to
>>>>> trunk.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So, we fix the module, but only tested in 6.1 version, maybe for 7.0
>>>>> and
>>>>> > trunk version is not working, check the bug #1195801.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 2014/1/18 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >> As an example, we just did a quick prototype to illustrate my
>>>>> point.
>>>>> >> >> Check this video, a new way of doing quotations:
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5SDZFcEJmTXFyNTA/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > This is awesome. I imagine instead of sending a customer a
>>>>> quotation
>>>>> >> > with 100 pages, you can have a interactive webpage, including
>>>>> graphics,
>>>>> >> > videos, 3d-modells and all the stuff.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >> This is so cool. I bet it improves quotes success rate by at
>>>>> least 20%!
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > If we have the first customer implementing this, i will ask him
>>>>> to do a
>>>>> >> > A/B-Testing to validate your numbers ;)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> We will use this for our own need within 4 weeks. So, I will be
>>>>> able to
>>>>> >> provide stats.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use
>>>>> modules like
>>>>> >> >> base_synchro to sync them)
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > What is the branch on that, so that we can have a look in details?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It s an official module since v6
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Greetings
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Markus
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > --
>>>>> >> > Dipl.-Comp.-Math. Markus Schneider
>>>>> >> > Softwareentwickler
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > initOS GmbH & Co. KG
>>>>> >> > An der Eisenbahn 1
>>>>> >> > 21224 Rosengarten
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Mobil:   +49 (0)172 2303699
>>>>> >> > Phone:   +49 (0)4105 5615613
>>>>> >> > Fax:     +49 (0)4105 5615610
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Email:   markus.schneider@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> > Web:     http://www.initos.com
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Geschäftsführung:
>>>>> >> > Dipl. Wirt.-Inf. Frederik Kramer & Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Francke
>>>>> >> > Haftende Gesellschafterin: initOS Verwaltungs GmbH
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Rosengarten – Klecken
>>>>> >> > Amtsgericht Tostedt, HRA 201840
>>>>> >> > USt-IdNr: DE 275698169
>>>>> >> > Steuer-Nr: 15/205/21402
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> >> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Mariano Ruiz
>>>>> > Software Architect & Web Developer
>>>>> > http://www.mrdev.com.ar
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> > Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *camptocamp*
>>>> INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
>>>> BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS
>>>>
>>>> *Joël Grand-Guillaume*
>>>> Division Manager
>>>> Business Solutions
>>>>
>>>> +41 21 619 10 28
>>>> www.camptocamp.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> *camptocamp*
>> INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
>> BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS
>>
>> *Joël Grand-Guillaume*
>> Division Manager
>> Business Solutions
>>
>> +41 21 619 10 28
>> www.camptocamp.com
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Cristian Salamea
@ovnicraft