ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>]

Nothing. Omar asked a question about a corner case. I answered him, and
then you started saying things that made no sense as a response to what I
was saying. My response applied only to that one device in question.
On Jul 20, 2013 5:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Of course the desktop interface will support multiple windows. No one have
> ever said otherwise?
> The desktop experience will most probably be very similar to Unity7 except
> for the improved
> indicators in Unity8.
>
> Canonical have already started that Ubuntu will be one code base,
> regardless of the device
> it's run on. Already today you can dynamically switch between mobile and
> tablet interface in
> Unity8 when the desktop interface is ready you will be able to switch with
> that too. All
> devices will of cource run appropriate interface.
>
> I can't really understand what you want to change?
>
>
> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been
>> listening to me.
>>
>> There are three form factors.
>> -Desktop
>> -Tablet
>> -Phone
>>
>> We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do not
>> know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version of
>> it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being
>> discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too
>> large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop
>> interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is
>> docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter.
>> It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The
>> desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it.
>> I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It
>> will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps.
>> A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop
>> interface with a windowing interface.
>>
>> I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or
>> be a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop
>> interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface.
>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface.
>>> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface?
>>>
>>> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to
>>> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi
>>> window.
>>> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that
>>> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always visible
>>> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet.
>>> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows
>>> features work.
>>>
>>> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should
>>> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface
>>> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the
>>> desktop interface aswell.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one
>>>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for
>>>> touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running
>>>> them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It
>>>> would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's your
>>>> problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for traditional
>>>> desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good decision.
>>>>
>>>> -Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by
>>>> side
>>>> -you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse
>>>> -you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>>>
>>>> Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an OSK
>>>> can be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard designed
>>>> for programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen would be
>>>> even better. I've written documents that are dozens of pages long on a
>>>> touchscreen. To someone who is practiced with them, it's a breeze. Don't
>>>> insult touchscreen interfaces just because you're not efficient with them.
>>>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >Why would that be useful?
>>>>> Because you are still interacting with it like a tablet, with touch.
>>>>> Advanced interfaces like LibreOffice or Eclipse wouldn't work
>>>>>  not because of the screen size but because of the input type.
>>>>> And if you wants to use desktop applications, why wouldn't
>>>>> you just use the desktop interface? The applications wouldn't
>>>>> be easier to interact with just because the interface of the
>>>>> desktop manager were fitted for touch.
>>>>>
>>>>> OSK is worthless for programming or writing documents, even if the
>>>>> screen is 20".
>>>>>
>>>>> You can't just add in multi-windows and totally change how you would
>>>>> interact with the only argument being "It's BIG!". The input is still
>>>>> as
>>>>> equally limited and broken for desktop interfaces.
>>>>>
>>>>> And no, in isn't Windows 8 all over again. Windows 8 is putting a
>>>>> tablet
>>>>> interface on the desktop. Unity is putting a tablet interface on a
>>>>> tablet and
>>>>> a desktop interface on a desktop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Without writing usecases for massive changes you are doing changes
>>>>> for the sake of changing stuff, probably to the worse. Before you go in
>>>>> and totally change how one interface would work you need to have a
>>>>> very clear plan of what you are doing and why you are doing that.
>>>>> The latter part of that is why use cases would need to be written.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a large display, there is very rarely enough content to use the
>>>>>> whole screen. If you're using a 20" tablet, it's not for pleasure. It needs
>>>>>> to use multiple windows. This applies to the keyboard as well. The keyboard
>>>>>> would be too large to type on if you just stretched it out to a 20" screen.
>>>>>> Why do you need to write a use case? This use case is plainly obvious. It
>>>>>> would be wasteful to only allow one application on the screen at a time for
>>>>>> large screens. Even the side stage isn't enough. It would be Windows 8 all
>>>>>> over again to do that. Besides, we need to support the legacy applications
>>>>>> like LibreOffice, and Eclipse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you want a single application to fill the whole screen at all
>>>>>> times? Why would that be useful?
>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 4:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing is, when you are using a tablet inteface. How would you
>>>>>>> intercat with multiple windows?
>>>>>>> We shouldn't add features just for the sake of features, if so we
>>>>>>> would still be using the terminal
>>>>>>> only as it's the only (yet?) invented interface that can do
>>>>>>> anything. We don't want that
>>>>>>> we want an interface that simple and easy to navigate if it looks
>>>>>>> good that would be a bonus.
>>>>>>> To do this we have to say, "this feature should be in because it's
>>>>>>> needed and works". Not just
>>>>>>> "this feature looks cool, lets add it".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could someone write some good use cases for a multi window/more
>>>>>>> advanced side stage?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode,
>>>>>>>> since that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. You can
>>>>>>>> still maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if that's
>>>>>>>> what you want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 1:49 PM, "Omar B." <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hmm, I believe we need to think more about the applications and
>>>>>>>>> connected peripherals, than the desktop itself.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the ASUS Transformer AiO, when the screen gets detached, it
>>>>>>>>> surely becomes a big Tablet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, I assume it will go from desktop mode to tablet mode (with
>>>>>>>>> probably a possibility of manual override).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In such big tablet form factors I see the usefulness of
>>>>>>>>> multi-window, re-sizing or a more feature-rich side stage being introduced
>>>>>>>>> to the touch environment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:30:11 -0500
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?
>>>>>>>>> From: coder543@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> To: estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the
>>>>>>>>> desktop looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only significant
>>>>>>>>> difference is that you can move things around and resize them as windows in
>>>>>>>>> one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the same
>>>>>>>>> apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be
>>>>>>>>> available to desktop mode.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft
>>>>>>>>> chose a divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and tablet.
>>>>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B." <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think
>>>>>>>>> it would be running tablet style at that point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS
>>>>>>>>> Transformer AiO.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just desktop mode?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Rasmus Eneman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Rasmus Eneman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rasmus Eneman
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>