unity-design team mailing list archive

[Kristoffer Lundén <kristoffer.lunden@xxxxxxxxx>]

2010/6/16 Conscious User <conscioususer@xxxxxxx>

>
> Kristoffer, calm down.
> [...]

There is no evil conspiracy to break your desktop experience, just a
> desire to see if there are any improvement possibilities that are being
> overlooked.
>
>
I am calm. And I don't think there is a conspiracy. I have no idea why
someone would put those words in my mouth, but oh well...

I am only (repeat-)explaining why the proposed solutions are (today) more or
less unacceptable, since it's apparent that people keeping on pushing it are
not affected themselves and thus don't see the problem.

Real shortly then: broken but not-yet-replaceable applications needs two
things from their indicators:

1. to  be able to interact left/right click etc
2. to be able to be seen at all times

That's it. Otherwise they break the *experience*. As described, above. Not
 unusable, but it's a definite regression, and as I see so far it seems
mostly just "because", and I think it's a bit strange when it doesn't make
it fit more into the whole anyway.

I never said there couldn't be a new way of doing it, only that those
suggested does not fulfill the need. Keep on keeping on.

/ K




>
> Le mercredi 16 juin 2010 à 17:14 +0200, Kristoffer Lundén a écrit :
>
>
> > It's the exact right word, since I wasn't talking about functionality.
> > Rocks are functional, but have a broken experience when it comes to
> > building houses, especially if you are used to a hammer. It may not be
> > breaking functionality (actually for icons that indicate status, it
> > does that too since it will be hidden) but it DOES break experience.
> > Regressing to a window in particular would be a horrible experience
> > and totally unacceptable. Cramming it into some kind of drop-down
> > indicator not much better, since a lot of apps communicate via these
> > old indicators.
>
> > You do realize that moving these indicators to windows or menu in no
> > way unbreaks them, or makes them conform - they will stick out just as
> > sorely, or worse. Sticking them in a menu does not make them behave
> > like the rest of the desktop, so that effort is not accomplishing
> > anything anyway. Just because all top levels are then menus does not
> > mean that the perceived experience is any more coherent - Id argue
> > that it's less coherent because it's unexpected and still does not
> > conform. I understand the initial reaction to try and fit everything
> > into the new menus, but in cases like this, the result just ends up
> > (potentially much) worse and still fool noone that it's one system.
>
> > If we choose to use Wine or Java, we expect to step outside the
> > blessed sandbox - now let us do that, please.
>
> > No. Anecdotal, of course, but I know of exactly zero people on Ubuntu
> > that does not run at least Wine to get at least Spotify which relies
> > somewhat heavily on having a systray icon. At work, I also have a Java
> > systray icon from DavMail without which I could not practically use
> > Ubuntu at work (not impossible, just much harder, esp the calendar and
> > Evolution is a crashing joke). Though the DavMail icon would suffer
> > less from being in a menu, it does communicate that it's working etc
> > by changing appearance so it's not nice to hide it in menu or window,
> > even though it's rarely important.
> >
> > The solutions here are, for Spotify: get a Linux client or provide an
> > alternative - native app, plugin to Rhythmbox etc - there's a non-free
> > library and several open efforts. And for DavMail: if it's possible
> > for Java to use the menus in a nice way, bugfiling or even patches.
> >
> > That's two examples that concern me. There's more. Steam, for
> > instance, is a huge thing when it comes to gaming in Wine, since a lot
> > of games do work well. They are rumored to release a Linux client
> > though, and at that point they could probably be petitioned to behave
> > nicely.
> >
> > Just don't break my desktop experience with what I feel is essentially
> > misdirected efforts, doing nothing to make the desktop more usable
> > while also not making it seem more coherent in any way.
>
>
>
>
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