unity-design team mailing list archive

[Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxx>]

Den 27. aug. 2011 19:10, skrev André Oliva:
>     From my observations of classmates, fellow students and various
>     other users, I see roughly 2 categories of users (putting all
>     nuances aside for the moment):
>     - Those who do learn a lot by themselves by active exploration, by
>     trying things out to see what happens.
>     - Those who don't and tend to struggle even with what is being
>     taught to them step by step. They end up barely capable of
>     following a few receipts, but if there is any deviation, they are
>     lost.

If you're trying to tell me a that a student is unable to learn that you
need to move the mouse to the upper-left corner of the screen when
you want to close an application, then I simply don't believe you.

>     Of course there are things where you just have to read
>     documentation, because of inherent complexity and risks. I don't
>     think window management should fall into that category.
>
>
> Totally agree with you. I observed almost the same behavior.

I don't understand how anyone would be able to use a computer
without learning how. Have you ever tested these things in reality?
New users doesn't know how to find the shift key on a computer
unless it is explained to them. Computers are not intuitive. Never
has been and it won't be until we implement EEG support and get
some really slick and precise EEG equipment to serve. That's not
coming very soon.
>     We can't make people read the manual, and not everybody has a friend
>     with past experience they can ask when they're stuck. How else are all
>     those people going to learn the interface?
>
>
> Also I agree with that. Some people likes tutorials, but generally, 
> people wants to do things. This is the reason people uses a computer for.
> When a UI gets too complicated or has too many things that have to be 
> learned in a manual, this can happen:

We are talking about the upper-left corner. The manual you are talking about
is this sentence: "to close a window, move the mouse to the upper-left 
corner
to show the buttons and click the red one with an X on it". It's not 
like this is
a very hard study requiring hours of reading. It takes less than a 
minute to
explain and understand.

How the people you are talking about have been able to use a computer,
is far beyond my comprehension if they are unable to understand such a
simple concept.

> "The Girl Who Didn't Want Ubuntu" 
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/08/ubuntu-college-girl-dropping-out-laptop/
> And, seriously, that was Ubuntu 9.10. GNOME (with a lot of buttons and 
> menus). Not Unity. And she simply reacted as many users "different, 
> new = it may not work". So, the UI has to be simple and clear.
Exactly. She had been told that Ubuntu was just like Windows and that you
could just use it without learning anything. That's what you say we should
still do. I say that we should have a page describing how to use the system.
If you are going to use something for thousands of hours, then I don't
understand why you would be unwilling to spend five or ten minutes to
learn how to use it. Perhaps even an hour.
> Thinking about 12.04, where is the right place and when is the right 
> time to get involved in the discussion?

The right time certainly isn't now, since nobody have even tried 11.10
yet. We should learn and base decisions on the things that we learn.

Jo-Erlend Schinstad