kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Fabrizio Tappero <fabrizio.tappero@xxxxxxxxx>]

I'd like to propose this new window structure

[image: Inline image 1]

Any feedback is welcome.

cheers
Fabrizio


On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I agree with Simon.  I have plans to propose something like this in the
> future (i.e. an integrated part library that manages symbols/footprints/etc
> together) and it would be best to reserve the term "component" for this
> future use, since in my experience that's what "component" means in the big
> tools (I have not used Altium, but it is more of a "medium" tool than a
> "big" tool FWIW)
>
> I don't have time to detail my proposal now, but basically I think a
> "component" should map to one or more footprints, one or more symbols, one
> or more vendor part numbers, one or more 3D models, etc.
>
> -Jon
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 8:33 AM, Simon Wells <swel024@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> one of the things that irks me about component is even though its
>> meant to only be schematic being component libs a lot of the questions
>> asked in irc will state component when they use that as either a
>> generic term for symbols AND footprints or sometimes footprints only,
>> as to some i guess thats still part of a "component definition".
>>
>> If at some point down the line we did introduce some sort of package
>> that was symbol/footprint/model/spice/....... i think that would be a
>> much better thing to call a component.
>>
>> On 24 March 2017 at 02:30, Chris Pavlina <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > Ah, interesting. This is a ... fiddly distinction, I don't like it. This
>> > is one case where I think we really should _not_ follow.
>> >
>> > I'm still not flipping from component back to symbol myself though -
>> > this is just Altium. The rest of them still mostly use "component",
>> > right?
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 09:19:45AM -0400, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> >> Here is the Altium library documentation:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.altium.com/documentation/17.0/display/ADES/((
>> More+about+Components+and+Libraries))_AD
>> >>
>> >> Interestingly the terms component, part, symbol, model, and footprint
>> >> are all mentioned.
>> >>
>> >> It appears that the folks at Altium have answered the is it a symbol or
>> >> component question:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.altium.com/documentation/17.0/display/ADES/((
>> Understanding+Models,+Components+and+Libraries))_AD#!Underst
>> andingModelsComponentsandLibraries-IsitaSymboloraComponent
>> >>
>> >> I was looking at the top level documentation where I saw the term
>> >> component.  Maybe symbol would be an acceptable term.  In our case it
>> >> certainly would be more accurate.  The only real difference is in the
>> >> level of detail added to the the schematic symbol that determines the
>> >> symbol/component difference and it's pretty grey definition at best.  I
>> >> retract my original statement and go with my preference of symbol.
>> >>
>> >> On 3/23/2017 9:05 AM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
>> >> > Many of them actually don't have that notion. Surprisingly enough,
>> >> > Altium of all things has a system that is remarkably similar to our
>> own,
>> >> > just with a different library management discipline applied in their
>> >> > standard library.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 01:50:08AM +1300, Simon Wells wrote:
>> >> >> Do most of the other EDA packages not refer to a component as
>> >> >> something that combines a symbol AND a footprint though?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 24 March 2017 at 01:34, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>> I'm going to weigh in on this because this has been on my radar
>> with the
>> >> >>> symbol library table work I've been doing.  I do agree that we
>> need to
>> >> >>> pick one term and use it consistently.  My preference is the term
>> symbol
>> >> >>> because in my mind this is a component[1] and this is symbolic
>> >> >>> representation[2] of a component ergo symbol.  However, I spent
>> some
>> >> >>> time this week checking out the documentation for all of the major
>> and
>> >> >>> quite a few minor EDA applications and they *all* use the term
>> component
>> >> >>> when talking about libraries.  This makes me think that for the
>> sake of
>> >> >>> uniformity with other EDA applications, we should use the term
>> >> >>> component.  While I'm not a proponent of doing something just
>> because
>> >> >>> that's what everyone else is doing, in this case using the term
>> >> >>> component may make users coming from other EDA apps a bit more
>> >> >>> comfortable.  Personally, I'm comfortable with either term but
>> maybe we
>> >> >>> should not stray to far from the norm here.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> [1]:
>> >> >>> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stackpole-electroni
>> cs-inc/CF14JT10K0/CF14JT10K0TR-ND/1741265
>> >> >>> [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Resistor_symbol_Amer
>> ica.svg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 3/23/2017 7:52 AM, Thor-Arne Hovland wrote:
>> >> >>>> Symbol has been used as long as I can remember.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> The proper names should probably be defined to avoid confusion.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> In my book:
>> >> >>>> A "symbol" is a generic repesentation for drawing a schematic,
>> >> >>>> and that is whats used in eeschema right now.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> A "footprint" is the pads and silkscreen ++ used in pcbnew.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> A "housing" is the physical package i.e. the 3D model.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> The current way of doing things is a bit confusing and causes
>> >> >>>> many "symbols" to be reused in the library.
>> >> >>>> This is not effective when someting is to be changed.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> It could be a good idea to introduce a "part" that stores all the
>> needed
>> >> >>>> information like symbol, footprint, pin connections between
>> symbol and
>> >> >>>> footprint,
>> >> >>>> 3D modell, documentation.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> This might be more intuitive for new user who I see repeatedly
>> trying to
>> >> >>>> match a symbol
>> >> >>>> with pins "G-S-D" to a footprint with pins "1-2-3".
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Just my 2 cent....
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Pavlina
>> >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 3:30 AM
>> >> >>>> To: Simon Wells
>> >> >>>> Cc: KiCad Developers
>> >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Kicad-developers] UI improvements
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Are we calling them "symbols" now? Internally they are called with
>> >> >>>> "components" or "parts" depending on whether they are on a
>> schematic...
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 03:25:03PM +1300, Simon Wells wrote:
>> >> >>>>> just a slight segue.... is it not better to refer to symbols
>> rather
>> >> >>>>> than components? as with the footprints being seperated from the
>> >> >>>>> symbols i don't see the justification for calling it a component
>> (will
>> >> >>>>> also require renaming other stuff)
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> On 23 March 2017 at 12:12, Chris Pavlina <
>> pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:53:40PM +0100, Clemens Koller wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>> Hello, Fabrizio!
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> The horizontal + vertical justify radio buttons could possibly
>> be
>> >> >>>>>>> improved by showing the alignment visually as it's done in [1]
>> by
>> >> >>>>> using >> a 3 x 3 radio button matrix. It can also reduce the
>> number of
>> >> >>>>> clicks to >> 1 to adjust hor + vert simultaneously.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> The timestamp is not human readable. It seems strange to me to
>> dump
>> >> >>>>> it >> as hex-number on the UI. (WTF!?)
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I'm struggling to think of a use for this. Maybe for power
>> users, to
>> >> >>>>>> jump quickly to the component in the raw sch file by searching
>> for it -
>> >> >>>>>> but why not just search for the reference?
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> I wonder how many people would complain if I took that out.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> The Component/Chip Name thingy seems to be lost a bit on the
>> lower
>> >> >>>>>>> left. Maybe some sorting of the elements based on the
>> usage/setup
>> >> >>>>>>> procedure as well as logic dependency could do some good.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> Regards,
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> Clemens
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> [1] https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/File:WG9-9.png
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> On 2017-03-22 10:32, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>>> hi guys,
>> >> >>>>>>>> I am looking at some new icons that were introduced in kicad
>> by
>> >> >>>>> the >> > people who made the related functionalities and at the
>> user
>> >> >>>>>>>> experience in general. If any of you guys has any feedback
>> about
>> >> >>>>>>>> possible (aesthetic) UI improvements I would love to know.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Specifically I am looking at this menu.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Inline image 1
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> the section "Chip Name" is a part that I use a lot and I find
>> a
>> >> >>>>>>>> little "mysterious". Before going further with a possible
>> patch
>> >> >>>>> to >> > improve a little the usability of it I would like to
>> know if
>> >> >>>>> there is >> > any of you interesting in giving an opinion. I
>> would
>> >> >>>>> love to know >> > from the person who made it what exactly is
>> the Chip
>> >> >>>>> Name section >> > for. I feel it is not so evident to the user.
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> cheers
>> >> >>>>>>>> Fabrizio
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>
>
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>