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Re: More default fields in schematic

To: "Reece R. Pollack" <reece@xxxxxxx>, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
From: kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 15:44:16 +0200
Cc: kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In-reply-to: <135f2e24-94bd-1fe7-2fe9-8f82aa12439b@his.com>
I just tested this, I cannot reproduce it. No empty fields were added
for me.

- Kristoffer

On Tue, 2018-05-29 at 08:54 -0400, Reece R. Pollack wrote:
> On 05/29/18 08:27, Jeff Young wrote:
> > Comments inline:
> > 
> > > On 28 May 2018, at 17:28, Reece R. Pollack <reece@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I believe you owe me 2c. We can discuss 2c in which currency
> > > later. :-)
> > > 
> > > I have five custom default fields defined:
> > >  - Mfgr
> > >  - Mfgr P/N
> > >  - Dist
> > >  - Dist P/N
> > >  - Specifications
> > 
> > None of these have any default values that make any sense, so I
> > assume they’re all just names with empty values, right?
>  
> Yes, all of these are empty by default, though I typically order from
> DigiKey so I could have set that one. I added them as "Default
> Fields" so that all components would have the same fields, and I
> wouldn't have to depend on adding the field names by hand. 
> 
> > > The first two give the manufacturer's name and part number; the
> > > second two give the distributor's name and part number; the third
> > > is a catch-all for specs that are important for ordering but
> > > aren't worth cluttering the schematic with.
> > > 
> > > My biggest issue with the current Default Fields is that I didn't
> > > start my current project with them, so using the field edit
> > > spreadsheet-like thingie often results in lots of noise in my
> > > commits as the empty default fields get added to components.
> > 
> > If it’s adding empty default fields then it’s a bug.  It should
> > only add them if they have non-empty values.
>  
> Then you have a bug. Here's a small excerpt from a Git diff where a
> lot of components had empty fields added. None of these components
> were added in this revision; I was simply setting part numbers for
> other components using the field editor spreadsheet thingie:
> 
> diff --git a/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch b/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch
> index 37482ee..e2aea43 100644
> --- a/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch  
> +++ b/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch  
> @@ -22,6 +22,11 @@ F 0 "U12" H 3900 2215 50  0000 C CNN
>  F 1 "74LVC1T45" H 3900 2124 50  0000 C CNN
>  F 2 "Package_TO_SOT_SMD:SOT-23-6" H 3900 1850 50  0001 C CNN
>  F 3 "http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc1t45.pdf"; H 3900 1850
> 50  0001 C CNN
> +F 4 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr"
> +F 5 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> +F 6 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> +F 7 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> +F 8 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Specifications"
>         1    3900 1850
>         1    0    0    -1  
>  $EndComp
> @@ -33,6 +38,11 @@ F 0 "U13" H 3900 3415 50  0000 C CNN
>  F 1 "74LVC1T45" H 3900 3324 50  0000 C CNN
>  F 2 "Package_TO_SOT_SMD:SOT-23-6" H 3900 3050 50  0001 C CNN
>  F 3 "http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc1t45.pdf"; H 3900 3050
> 50  0001 C CNN
> +F 4 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr"
> +F 5 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> +F 6 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> +F 7 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> +F 8 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Specifications"
>         1    3900 3050
>         1    0    0    -1  
>  $EndComp
> @@ -66,6 +86,11 @@ F 0 "J5" H 7719 1375 50  0000 C CNN
>  F 1 "Conn_01x06" H 7719 1466 50  0000 C CNN
>  F 2 "Connector_PinHeader_2.54mm:PinHeader_1x06_P2.54mm_Vertical" H
> 7800 1900 50  0001 C CNN
>  F 3 "~" H 7800 1900 50  0001 C CNN
> +F 4 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr"
> +F 5 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> +F 6 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> +F 7 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> +F 8 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Specifications"
>         1    7800 1900
>         1    0    0    -1  
>  $EndComp
> @@ -209,6 +234,7 @@ F 4 "CTS" H 3900 7100 50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
>  F 5 "218-4LPST" H 3900 7100 50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
>  F 6 "DigiKey" H 3900 7100 50  0001 C CNN "Distr"
>  F 7 "CT2184LPST-ND" H 3900 7100 50  0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> +F 8 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Specifications"
>         1    3900 7100
>         1    0    0    -1  
>  $EndComp
> @@ -321,6 +347,11 @@ F 0 "R127" H 4509 5746 50  0000 L CNN
>  F 1 "100K" H 4509 5655 50  0000 L CNN
>  F 2 "Resistor_SMD:R_0603_1608Metric" H 4450 5700 50  0001 C CNN
>  F 3 "~" H 4450 5700 50  0001 C CNN
> +F 4 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr"
> +F 5 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> +F 6 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> +F 7 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> +F 8 "" H 0   0   50  0001 C CNN "Specifications"
>         1    4450 5700
>         1    0    0    -1  
>  $EndComp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Cheers,
> > Jeff.
> > 
> > > I was originally against adding such defined fields, as I expect
> > > it will add fields to components that will potentially conflict
> > > with those created by current users. However, if it doesn't do
> > > that, and has the support from parts distributors, I guess I
> > > could live with it.
> > > 
> > > On 05/22/18 10:56, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > I'd like to contribute with my 2c. 
> > > > 
> > > > I completely agree with Kristoffer, there is a need for a "MPN"
> > > > field hard coded exactly as "Value" field is hard coded in
> > > > Kicad.
> > > > 
> > > > As Wayne mentions the current "Preferences - General Options -
> > > > Default Fields" is not a bad option to add a "MPN" field. This
> > > > is what I do and this is what all my PCB colleges at work do. 
> > > > 
> > > > Above solution will however not help the majority to do the
> > > > same. I would actually bet 2c that nearly nobody uses the
> > > > Default Fields feature (most of the people probably do it
> > > > component by component). And this makes it a not so useful
> > > > feature.
> > > > 
> > > > Kicost is a god-made tool and for sure Dave will soon add MPN
> > > > as a default field in Kicad.
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Fabrizio
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:41 PM, kristoffer ödmark <kristoffero
> > > > dmark90@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > My updated patch forgot to add the files before doing the --
> > > > > amend.
> > > > > 
> > > > > So it only updated the commit message. Here is the real file
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Tue, 2018-05-22 at 07:52 -0500, Ben Hest wrote:
> > > > > > From a Digi-Key KiCad library standpoint, as we're still in
> > > > > beta, I
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > gladly change the fields to whatever would be decided. 
> > > > > Uniformity
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > plugins use would definitely be an advantage.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -Ben
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:38 AM kristoffer ödmark <
> > > > > > kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Thanks! This is exactly what i was going for, non-
> > > > > intrusive
> > > > > > > oppurtunity
> > > > > > > for uniformity!
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I tested the bom2csv plugin, It did not include the empty
> > > > > fields.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I also tested the bom_csv_sorted_by_ref, it did not
> > > > > include the
> > > > > > > empty
> > > > > > > values, but it included some values I had not specified,
> > > > > such as
> > > > > > > Manufacturer and Vendor even if they were not provided in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > schematic.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > - Kristoffer
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On Tue, 2018-05-22 at 11:05 +0100, Jeff Young wrote:
> > > > > > > > I think I like this new patch.  It provides the
> > > > > /opportunity/ for
> > > > > > > > uniformity, without getting in the way of those who
> > > > > want to go
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > own way.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Do the BOM generators automatically output all default
> > > > > fields or
> > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > those with values?
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On 22 May 2018, at 09:22, kristoffer ödmark
> > > > > <kristofferodmark90
> > > > > > > > > @gma
> > > > > > > > > il.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Please disregard my previous mail, it got mangled
> > > > > badly
> > > > > > > > > somehow, it
> > > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > not look like that in my editor at least.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2018-05-21 at 18:22 -0400, Wayne Stambaugh
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Eeschema already supports creating default optional
> > > > > fields in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > configuration settings dialog.  Used correctly,
> > > > > these will
> > > > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > same optional field names for every project without
> > > > > having to
> > > > > > > > > > add
> > > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > by hand to each symbol and possibly typing in
> > > > > different field
> > > > > > > > > > names
> > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > accident.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Different users will still type in different field
> > > > > names for
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > things though. What you describe works as long as
> > > > > there is only
> > > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > person in the entire projects lifetime, using only
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > computer.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > The proposed patch would intermingle the default
> > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > existing schematic symbol fields which would break
> > > > > existing
> > > > > > > > > > BOMs
> > > > > > > > > > which I
> > > > > > > > > > don't think users will appreciate.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The proposed patch will only change default settings,
> > > > > existing
> > > > > > > > > users
> > > > > > > > > with a config already in place will not be affected.
> > > > > I realised
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the fields now accept empty values as well, so
> > > > > existing boms on
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > installations will not be affected either. I updated
> > > > > the patch,
> > > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > will not affect anyone that doesnt use the fields.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > [...] As I've stated before, I can set 10
> > > > > > > > > > different designers down and I will get 10
> > > > > different sets of
> > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > field names.  This really seems like me to be a
> > > > > configuration
> > > > > > > > > > issue.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > This is the problems I want to address, because those
> > > > > 10
> > > > > > > > > designers
> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > by experience also spell the same field in 10
> > > > > different ways.
> > > > > > > > > Making
> > > > > > > > > their fields incompatable. MPN, MFPN, #mfg,
> > > > > ManufPart, etc etc.
> > > > > > > > > Let
> > > > > > > > > those 10 designers remove the fields they do not want
> > > > > instead.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > The only possible solution that I would accept is
> > > > > to move the
> > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > field definitions from the eeschema configuration
> > > > > file into
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > kicad project file.  This way existing projects
> > > > > would not be
> > > > > > > > > > polluted
> > > > > > > > > > with the proposed default fields and users could
> > > > > define their
> > > > > > > > > > own
> > > > > > > > > > default fields in a custom project file.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Default fields does not pollute if they are empty,
> > > > > they just
> > > > > > > > > give a
> > > > > > > > > hint of what data could be put into the schematic,
> > > > > same as with
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > datasheet field, which is not often used. Funny how
> > > > > noone ever
> > > > > > > > > complains about that one.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > A more flexible solution would be to add a "File-
> > > > > >New from
> > > > > > > > > > Custom
> > > > > > > > > > Template" command to KiCad to allow the user to
> > > > > select any
> > > > > > > > > > custom
> > > > > > > > > > project file.  This would allow for multiple custom
> > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > files
> > > > > > > > > > instead of forcing the user to use only a single
> > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > file.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > As long as the "File->New Project" would include the
> > > > > additional
> > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > and then people can use "New from Custom Template"
> > > > > means they
> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > use a
> > > > > > > > > template that is empty. Otherwise it would defeat the
> > > > > purpose.
> > > > > > > > > I am
> > > > > > > > > proposing a slightly different default configuration,
> > > > > not any
> > > > > > > > > change in
> > > > > > > > > how people will use the software.
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > Wayne
> > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > On 05/20/2018 06:27 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I agree, I had the same issue when I was doing my
> > > > > board, I
> > > > > > > > > > > needed a
> > > > > > > > > > > field for all components, and I had to manually
> > > > > add it for
> > > > > > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > > > item,
> > > > > > > > > > > there was no way to add this field to all
> > > > > components at the
> > > > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > > time or
> > > > > > > > > > > to have it add by default from the addition of a
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > > > component
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > the sheet.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > Which reminds me, Cadence Designer has tools to
> > > > > manipulate
> > > > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > > > > > large scale, whether to add, delete, show, hide,
> > > > > etc, this
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > that would be nice to have in KiCAD, either that
> > > > > or a table
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > components for the sheet or schematic and columns
> > > > > for each
> > > > > > > > > > > field,
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > ability to show/hide each cell individually.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > I think the ultimate goal is to make the Symbol
> > > > > Table more
> > > > > > > > > > > useful,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > that'll take to long for v5 so if Kristoffer's
> > > > > patch allows
> > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > easy
> > > > > > > > > > > way
> > > > > > > > > > > to add fields to all components or similar, I'd
> > > > > say do it
> > > > > > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > > > will be pissed and waste their time doing it for
> > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > > > component in
> > > > > > > > > > > their schematic.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:01 PM, kristoffer
> > > > > Ödmark
> > > > > > > > > > > <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristoffero
> > > > > dmark90@gm
> > > > > > > > > > > ail.
> > > > > > > > > > > com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    I obvviously disagree, the correct solution
> > > > > would be to
> > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > both.
> > > > > > > > > > >    This does not hinder that, its not even the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    The problem is for everyone who want for
> > > > > example the
> > > > > > > > > > > Manufacturer
> > > > > > > > > > >    Part Number will have to define a fieldname,
> > > > > which every
> > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > >    results in them abbreviating it to something
> > > > > different.
> > > > > > > > > > > Hence
> > > > > > > > > > > nobody
> > > > > > > > > > >    can work with Manufacturer Part Numbers.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    Here is something similar, Imagine all of the
> > > > > colours in
> > > > > > > > > > > Kicad
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > >    all of the layers where white by default. Have
> > > > > fun
> > > > > > > > > > > defining
> > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >    colours yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > >    Maybe you want to define them yourself, nobody
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > stopping
> > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > >    either, just get cracking.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    How easy would it be for you to look at the
> > > > > board
> > > > > > > > > > > someone
> > > > > > > > > > > else
> > > > > > > > > > > made
> > > > > > > > > > >    later and understand what is what? Maybe for
> > > > > some that
> > > > > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > >    solution, but for me that
> > > > > > > > > > >    would be an extreme example of bad default
> > > > > values.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    This is how the default fields are now, they
> > > > > are white,
> > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > >    see-throught, which makes life harder for
> > > > > anyone that
> > > > > > > > > > >    wants to contribute or create tools that
> > > > > interact with
> > > > > > > > > > > kicad,
> > > > > > > > > > > and as
> > > > > > > > > > >    I previously said, this is only a default, you
> > > > > are still
> > > > > > > > > > >    equally able to add/remove or change the
> > > > > fields how you
> > > > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > to.
> > > > > > > > > > >    But, tools like kibom or various other web-
> > > > > based tools
> > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > >    easier integrate to it, or at least support a
> > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > > value
> > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > well.
> > > > > > > > > > >    So for the majority of users, who doesnt
> > > > > change
> > > > > > > > > > > defaults,
> > > > > > > > > > >    the tool would just work.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    I will reiterate, I do not care what they are
> > > > > named, I
> > > > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > >    default field where I can put my manufacturer
> > > > > part
> > > > > > > > > > > number,
> > > > > > > > > > > amongs
> > > > > > > > > > >    others.
> > > > > > > > > > >    The specific abbreviation or name does not
> > > > > matter, If i
> > > > > > > > > > > care, I
> > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > >    manually add/remove my own fields *JUST AS I
> > > > > DO NOW*,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > the people
> > > > > > > > > > >    who use it, it will be easier across projects,
> > > > > for the
> > > > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > >    dont, It will not matter.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    Sane defaults matter. A lot actually.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    - Kristoffer
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >    On 2018-05-20 23:40, José Ignacio wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        I dont like this, the right solution would
> > > > > be to
> > > > > > > > > > > allow
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > >        importing a default config into kicad for
> > > > > things
> > > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > >        different groups will have different
> > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:31 PM,
> > > > > Kristoffer Ödmark
> > > > > > > > > > >        <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >            The patch should only affect first
> > > > > startup,
> > > > > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >        fields
> > > > > > > > > > >            will be saved
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >            On May 20, 2018 22:18, "Seth
> > > > > Hillbrand"
> > > > > > > > > > >        <seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hil
> > > > > lbrand@gma
> > > > > > > > > > > il.c
> > > > > > > > > > > om>
> > > > > > > > > > >            <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                Hi Kristoffer-
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                This feels like a management issue
> > > > > rather
> > > > > > > > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > > > tool
> > > > > > > > > > >        issue.
> > > > > > > > > > >                If the user doesn't want any extra
> > > > > fields,
> > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > would your
> > > > > > > > > > >                patch allow that?
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                -S
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                Am So., 20. Mai 2018 um 13:00 Uhr
> > > > > schrieb
> > > > > > > > > > > kristoffer Ödmark
> > > > > > > > > > >                <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > >                <mailto:kristofferodmark90@gmail.c
> > > > > om
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>>:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Hello!
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    I will open this can of worms
> > > > > again, I
> > > > > > > > > > > feel
> > > > > > > > > > > that I have
> > > > > > > > > > >                    to. So from what
> > > > > > > > > > >                    I gather we have
> > > > > proffessionals as the
> > > > > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > > > aim
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > >        Kicad.
> > > > > > > > > > >                    The reason I will open this
> > > > > issue again
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > >        feel we
> > > > > > > > > > >                    have a
> > > > > > > > > > >                    collaboration issue, maybe not
> > > > > a mayor
> > > > > > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > >                    nonetheless.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    We really need more default
> > > > > fields for
> > > > > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > > schematic
> > > > > > > > > > >                    symbols. Im not
> > > > > > > > > > >                    proposing required fields, I
> > > > > am *ONLY*
> > > > > > > > > > > proposing that
> > > > > > > > > > >                    there should be default fields
> > > > > added
> > > > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > >                    fields settings
> > > > > > > > > > >                    tab. I am not proposing they
> > > > > need to be
> > > > > > > > > > > filled
> > > > > > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    libraries, nor that people
> > > > > need to use
> > > > > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > > only that
> > > > > > > > > > >                    they need to
> > > > > > > > > > >                    exist with a fresh install of
> > > > > kicad so
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > easy
> > > > > > > > > > >        problems
> > > > > > > > > > >                    such as theese do not happen:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                         - Collaborators working
> > > > > on the same
> > > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > >        will not
> > > > > > > > > > >                    create
> > > > > > > > > > >                    duplicate fields in
> > > > > libs/projects
> > > > > > > > > > > describing
> > > > > > > > > > > the same
> > > > > > > > > > >                    thing by mistake
> > > > > > > > > > >                         - Projects that aim to
> > > > > interact or
> > > > > > > > > > > add
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > Kicad can
> > > > > > > > > > >                    assume that the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Fields will exist, and will
> > > > > know what
> > > > > > > > > > > name/tag
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > >        look for
> > > > > > > > > > >                           (bom exporters, price
> > > > > checkers,
> > > > > > > > > > > MacroFab, etc)
> > > > > > > > > > >                         - Open source projects
> > > > > will be
> > > > > > > > > > > easier
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > >        collaborate,
> > > > > > > > > > >                    read and order
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    The reason I think it is
> > > > > better to have
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > fields by
> > > > > > > > > > >                    default than the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    current solution to add them
> > > > > is that the
> > > > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > >        will use
> > > > > > > > > > >                    what exists, and tools can
> > > > > support it
> > > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > >                    beginning, people
> > > > > > > > > > >                    with inhouse tools seems to
> > > > > dislike
> > > > > > > > > > > this,
> > > > > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > >        map their
> > > > > > > > > > >                    parts with an inhouse number -
> > > > > and then
> > > > > > > > > > > handle
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    information about the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    part there. From what I
> > > > > gather, this is
> > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >        majority, and
> > > > > > > > > > >                    these persons still modify the
> > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > > > settings.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    I spent maybe 30-40 mins
> > > > > checking the
> > > > > > > > > > > "made
> > > > > > > > > > > with kicad"
> > > > > > > > > > >                    projects, I
> > > > > > > > > > >                    found that the most common
> > > > > addition to
> > > > > > > > > > > libs
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > >        schematics
> > > > > > > > > > >                    are:
> > > > > > > > > > >                         - Manufacturers part
> > > > > number, these
> > > > > > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > > > named
> > > > > > > > > > >        widely
> > > > > > > > > > >                    different in
> > > > > > > > > > >                    projects, (BOM, MP, MPN, #mfg,
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > > > syntaxes in
> > > > > > > > > > >                    the Value field )
> > > > > > > > > > >                             I even saw a mix of
> > > > > these in
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > >                    once, along with
> > > > > > > > > > >                    some people having the vendor
> > > > > id only.
> > > > > > > > > > >                         - Manufacturer ( found
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > > > languages
> > > > > > > > > > >        though )
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    more uncommon things was,
> > > > > Tolerance(
> > > > > > > > > > > 10%,
> > > > > > > > > > > 20pps),
> > > > > > > > > > >        Ratings
> > > > > > > > > > >                    ( 1/4W, 85C,
> > > > > > > > > > >                    16V ), Vendor information and
> > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > > >        Descriptions. They
> > > > > > > > > > >                    were named
> > > > > > > > > > >                    and abbreviated
> > > > > > > > > > >                    very differently accross
> > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    What I would like to see is
> > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > additional
> > > > > > > > > > > fields by
> > > > > > > > > > >                    default, but
> > > > > > > > > > >                    hidden from the schematic
> > > > > unless changed
> > > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > > user.
> > > > > > > > > > >                         Tolerance ( used for
> > > > > setting
> > > > > > > > > > > tolerances
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > >        resistors,
> > > > > > > > > > >                    capacitors,
> > > > > > > > > > >                    oscillators, etc )
> > > > > > > > > > >                         MaxRating ( field were
> > > > > one can
> > > > > > > > > > > specify
> > > > > > > > > > > max
> > > > > > > > > > > Voltage,
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Ampere,
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Frequency, or whatever the
> > > > > component
> > > > > > > > > > > needs )
> > > > > > > > > > >                         Manufacturer ( For
> > > > > inhouse numbers,
> > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > > >        either
> > > > > > > > > > >                    just remove
> > > > > > > > > > >                    it, or use the company/group
> > > > > name )
> > > > > > > > > > >                         MPN ( Maybe PartNumber
> > > > > could be
> > > > > > > > > > > used
> > > > > > > > > > > here,
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > >        people
> > > > > > > > > > >                    who use
> > > > > > > > > > >                    inhouse numbers use it aswell,
> > > > > I dont
> > > > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > care
> > > > > > > > > > >        what its
> > > > > > > > > > >                    called, as
> > > > > > > > > > >                    long as its called something )
> > > > > > > > > > >                         Vendor
> > > > > > > > > > >                         Notes
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    I would be all up for extra
> > > > > > > > > > > additions/removals,
> > > > > > > > > > > but I
> > > > > > > > > > >                    would prefer if
> > > > > > > > > > >                    the naming is not discussed,
> > > > > but rather
> > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > >                    decided/agreed upon by
> > > > > > > > > > >                    someone in the lead team.
> > > > > > > > > > >                    The very least I think should
> > > > > be added
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > case
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    previous is to much are:
> > > > > > > > > > >                         Tolerance
> > > > > > > > > > >                         Manufacturer
> > > > > > > > > > >                         MPN
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    I attach a patch for the
> > > > > minimal set,
> > > > > > > > > > > tested
> > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > linux by
> > > > > > > > > > >                    removing the
> > > > > > > > > > >                    .config/kicad/eeschema file.
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    - Kristoffer
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >                    ps
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Some github files i reviewed,
> > > > > not all:
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-g
> > > > > ardening/b
> > > > > > > > > > > lob/
> > > > > > > > > > > mas
> > > > > > > > > > > ter/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-
> > > > > gardening/
> > > > > > > > > > > blob
> > > > > > > > > > > /ma
> > > > > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-
> > > > > gardening/
> > > > > > > > > > > blob
> > > > > > > > > > > /ma
> > > > > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-
> > > > > gardening/
> > > > > > > > > > > blob
> > > > > > > > > > > /ma
> > > > > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/m
> > > > > aster/Blix
> > > > > > > > > > > ten%
> > > > > > > > > > > 20L
> > > > > > > > > > > ED%20Device/Blixten.sch
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/
> > > > > master/Bli
> > > > > > > > > > > xten
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/
> > > > > master/Bli
> > > > > > > > > > > xten
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/
> > > > > master/Bli
> > > > > > > > > > > xten
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/b
> > > > > lob/master
> > > > > > > > > > > /pcb
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/
> > > > > blob/maste
> > > > > > > > > > > r/pc
> > > > > > > > > > > b%2
> > > > > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/
> > > > > blob/maste
> > > > > > > > > > > r/pc
> > > > > > > > > > > b%2
> > > > > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/
> > > > > blob/maste
> > > > > > > > > > > r/pc
> > > > > > > > > > > b%2
> > > > > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/
> > > > > master/sch
> > > > > > > > > > > /cap
> > > > > > > > > > > _sm
> > > > > > > > > > > d.lib
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob
> > > > > /master/sc
> > > > > > > > > > > h/ca
> > > > > > > > > > > p_s
> > > > > > > > > > > md.lib>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob
> > > > > /master/sc
> > > > > > > > > > > h/ca
> > > > > > > > > > > p_s
> > > > > > > > > > > md.lib <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob
> > > > > /master/sc
> > > > > > > > > > > h/ca
> > > > > > > > > > > p_sm
> > > > > > > > > > > d.lib>>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/mast
> > > > > er/schemat
> > > > > > > > > > > ic_p
> > > > > > > > > > > cb/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/schema
> > > > > > > > > > > tic_
> > > > > > > > > > > pcb
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/schema
> > > > > > > > > > > tic_
> > > > > > > > > > > pcb
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/schema
> > > > > > > > > > > tic_
> > > > > > > > > > > pcb
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>>
> > > > > > > > > > >                   
> > > > > ________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > ____
> > > > > > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Mailing list:
> > > > > > > > > > >        https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> > > > > > > > > > >                    <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekica
> > > > > d-develope
> > > > > > > > > > > rs
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Post to     : kicad-developers
> > > > > @lists.lau
> > > > > > > > > > > nchp
> > > > > > > > > > > ad.
> > > > > > > > > > > net
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.n
> > > > > et>
> > > > > > > > > > >                    <mailto:kicad-developers@lists
> > > > > .launchpad
> > > > > > > > > > > .net
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> > > > > et>>
> > > > > > > > > > >                    Unsubscribe :
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> > > > > > > > > > >                    <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekica
> > > > > d-develope
> > > > > > > > > > > rs
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >                    More help   : https://help.lau
> > > > > nchpad.net
> > > > > > > > > > > /Lis
> > > > > > > > > > > tHe
> > > > > > > > > > > lp
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
> > > > > > > > > > >                    <https://help.launchpad.net/Li
> > > > > stHelp
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > > >           
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > >            Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~k
> > > > > icad-devel
> > > > > > > > > > > oper
> > > > > > > > > > > s
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> > > > > > > > > > >            <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-develo
> > > > > pers
> > > > > > > > > > >        <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >            Post to     : kicad-developers@lists.l
> > > > > aunchpad.n
> > > > > > > > > > > et
> > > > > > > > > > >        <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchpad.n
> > > > > et>
> > > > > > > > > > >            <mailto:kicad-developers@lists.launchp
> > > > > ad.net
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References

More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer Ödmark, 2018-05-20
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Seth Hillbrand, 2018-05-20
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Kristoffer Ödmark, 2018-05-20
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: José Ignacio, 2018-05-20
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer Ödmark, 2018-05-20
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Andrey Kuznetsov, 2018-05-20
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Wayne Stambaugh, 2018-05-21
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer ödmark, 2018-05-22
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Jeff Young, 2018-05-22
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer ödmark, 2018-05-22
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Ben Hest, 2018-05-22
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer ödmark, 2018-05-22
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Fabrizio Tappero, 2018-05-22
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Reece R. Pollack, 2018-05-28
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Jeff Young, 2018-05-29
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Reece R. Pollack, 2018-05-29