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Mailing list archive
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Message #35979
Re: More default fields in schematic
On Tue, 2018-05-29 at 15:25 +0200, Clemens Koller wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Please don't add manufacturer/distributor's information / procurement
> informtion which will end up in the schematics as some empty or non-
> empty defaults.
> Or add them as invisible/all off by default.
It will not be added there, and I cannot even see why that would be a
problem? Empty fields in a file, adding maybe a few kb to each
schematic?
> This will spoil version management on schematics level and supports
> merging responsibilities of the design-correctness (choosing parts
> and manufacturer(s) and their part no. to fit, incl. a coice of
> second source components) with responsibilities of the procurement
> (choosing dists / sourcing partners).
No it will not, It should not be added to the files unless you
specifically set them, neither will it enforce you to start adding them
or anything. It will suggest for those people who do use them that
these names are recommended.
>
> [...]
>
> Regards,
>
> Clemens
>
>
> On 2018-05-29 14:54, Reece R. Pollack wrote:
> > On 05/29/18 08:27, Jeff Young wrote:
> > > Comments inline:
> > >
> > > > On 28 May 2018, at 17:28, Reece R. Pollack <reece@xxxxxxx
> > > > <mailto:reece@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I believe you owe me 2c. We can discuss 2c in which currency
> > > > later. :-)
> > > >
> > > > I have five custom default fields defined:
> > > > - Mfgr
> > > > - Mfgr P/N
> > > > - Dist
> > > > - Dist P/N
> > > > - Specifications
> > >
> > > None of these have any default values that make any sense, so I
> > > assume they’re all just names with empty values, right?
> >
> > Yes, all of these are empty by default, though I typically order
> > from DigiKey so I could have set that one. I added them as "Default
> > Fields" so that all components would have the same fields, and I
> > wouldn't have to depend on adding the field names by hand.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The first two give the manufacturer's name and part number; the
> > > > second two give the distributor's name and part number; the
> > > > third is a catch-all for specs that are important for ordering
> > > > but aren't worth cluttering the schematic with.
> > > >
> > > > My biggest issue with the current Default Fields is that I
> > > > didn't start my current project with them, so using the field
> > > > edit spreadsheet-like thingie often results in lots of noise in
> > > > my commits as the empty default fields get added to components.
> > >
> > > If it’s adding empty default fields then it’s a bug. It should
> > > only add them if they have non-empty values.
> >
> > Then you have a bug. Here's a small excerpt from a Git diff where a
> > lot of components had empty fields added. None of these components
> > were added in this revision; I was simply setting part numbers for
> > /other/ components using the field editor spreadsheet thingie:
> >
> > diff --git a/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> > Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch b/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> > Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch
> > index 37482ee..e2aea43 100644
> > --- a/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> > Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch
> > +++ b/Recreation/P170-DH/pcb/P170-DH
> > Replacement/ExternalInterface.sch
> > @@ -22,6 +22,11 @@ F 0 "U12" H 3900 2215 50 0000 C CNN
> > F 1 "74LVC1T45" H 3900 2124 50 0000 C CNN
> > F 2 "Package_TO_SOT_SMD:SOT-23-6" H 3900 1850 50 0001 C CNN
> > F 3 "http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc1t45.pdf"; H 3900 1850
> > 50 0001 C CNN
> > +F 4 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr"
> > +F 5 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> > +F 6 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> > +F 7 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> > +F 8 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Specifications"
> > 1 3900 1850
> > 1 0 0 -1
> > $EndComp
> > @@ -33,6 +38,11 @@ F 0 "U13" H 3900 3415 50 0000 C CNN
> > F 1 "74LVC1T45" H 3900 3324 50 0000 C CNN
> > F 2 "Package_TO_SOT_SMD:SOT-23-6" H 3900 3050 50 0001 C CNN
> > F 3 "http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74lvc1t45.pdf"; H 3900 3050
> > 50 0001 C CNN
> > +F 4 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr"
> > +F 5 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> > +F 6 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> > +F 7 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> > +F 8 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Specifications"
> > 1 3900 3050
> > 1 0 0 -1
> > $EndComp
> > @@ -66,6 +86,11 @@ F 0 "J5" H 7719 1375 50 0000 C CNN
> > F 1 "Conn_01x06" H 7719 1466 50 0000 C CNN
> > F 2 "Connector_PinHeader_2.54mm:PinHeader_1x06_P2.54mm_Vertical" H
> > 7800 1900 50 0001 C CNN
> > F 3 "~" H 7800 1900 50 0001 C CNN
> > +F 4 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr"
> > +F 5 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> > +F 6 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> > +F 7 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> > +F 8 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Specifications"
> > 1 7800 1900
> > 1 0 0 -1
> > $EndComp
> > @@ -209,6 +234,7 @@ F 4 "CTS" H 3900 7100 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> > F 5 "218-4LPST" H 3900 7100 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> > F 6 "DigiKey" H 3900 7100 50 0001 C CNN "Distr"
> > F 7 "CT2184LPST-ND" H 3900 7100 50 0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> > +F 8 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Specifications"
> > 1 3900 7100
> > 1 0 0 -1
> > $EndComp
> > @@ -321,6 +347,11 @@ F 0 "R127" H 4509 5746 50 0000 L CNN
> > F 1 "100K" H 4509 5655 50 0000 L CNN
> > F 2 "Resistor_SMD:R_0603_1608Metric" H 4450 5700 50 0001 C CNN
> > F 3 "~" H 4450 5700 50 0001 C CNN
> > +F 4 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr"
> > +F 5 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Distr P/N"
> > +F 6 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr"
> > +F 7 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Mfgr P/N"
> > +F 8 "" H 0 0 50 0001 C CNN "Specifications"
> > 1 4450 5700
> > 1 0 0 -1
> > $EndComp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jeff.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I was originally against adding such defined fields, as I
> > > > expect it will add fields to components that will potentially
> > > > conflict with those created by current users. However, if it
> > > > doesn't do that, and has the support from parts distributors, I
> > > > guess I could live with it.
> > > >
> > > > On 05/22/18 10:56, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > I'd like to contribute with my 2c.
> > > > >
> > > > > I completely agree with Kristoffer, there is a need for a
> > > > > "MPN" field hard coded exactly as "Value" field is hard coded
> > > > > in Kicad.
> > > > >
> > > > > As Wayne mentions the current "Preferences - General Options
> > > > > - Default Fields" is not a bad option to add a "MPN" field.
> > > > > This is what I do and this is what all my PCB colleges at
> > > > > work do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Above solution will however not help the majority to do the
> > > > > same. I would actually bet 2c that nearly nobody uses the
> > > > > Default Fields feature (most of the people probably do it
> > > > > component by component). And this makes it a not so useful
> > > > > feature.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kicost is a god-made tool and for sure Dave will soon add MPN
> > > > > as a default field in Kicad.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Fabrizio
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:41 PM, kristoffer ödmark <kristoffe
> > > > > rodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My updated patch forgot to add the files before doing the
> > > > > --amend.
> > > > >
> > > > > So it only updated the commit message. Here is the real
> > > > > file
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 2018-05-22 at 07:52 -0500, Ben Hest wrote:
> > > > > > From a Digi-Key KiCad library standpoint, as we're
> > > > > still in beta, I
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > gladly change the fields to whatever would be decided.
> > > > > Uniformity
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > plugins use would definitely be an advantage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ben
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 5:38 AM kristoffer ödmark <
> > > > > > kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristofferodmark90
> > > > > @gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks! This is exactly what i was going for, non-
> > > > > intrusive
> > > > > > > oppurtunity
> > > > > > > for uniformity!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I tested the bom2csv plugin, It did not include the
> > > > > empty fields.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also tested the bom_csv_sorted_by_ref, it did not
> > > > > include the
> > > > > > > empty
> > > > > > > values, but it included some values I had not
> > > > > specified, such as
> > > > > > > Manufacturer and Vendor even if they were not
> > > > > provided in the
> > > > > > > schematic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - Kristoffer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 2018-05-22 at 11:05 +0100, Jeff Young wrote:
> > > > > > > > I think I like this new patch. It provides the
> > > > > /opportunity/ for
> > > > > > > > uniformity, without getting in the way of those who
> > > > > want to go
> > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > own way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do the BOM generators automatically output all
> > > > > default fields or
> > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > those with values?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 22 May 2018, at 09:22, kristoffer ödmark
> > > > > <kristofferodmark90
> > > > > > > > > @gma
> > > > > > > > > il.com <http://il.com/>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Please disregard my previous mail, it got mangled
> > > > > badly
> > > > > > > > > somehow, it
> > > > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > > > not look like that in my editor at least.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, 2018-05-21 at 18:22 -0400, Wayne
> > > > > Stambaugh wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Eeschema already supports creating default
> > > > > optional fields in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > configuration settings dialog. Used correctly,
> > > > > these will
> > > > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > same optional field names for every project
> > > > > without having to
> > > > > > > > > > add
> > > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > by hand to each symbol and possibly typing in
> > > > > different field
> > > > > > > > > > names
> > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > accident.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Different users will still type in different
> > > > > field names for
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > things though. What you describe works as long as
> > > > > there is only
> > > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > person in the entire projects lifetime, using
> > > > > only one
> > > > > > > > > computer.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The proposed patch would intermingle the
> > > > > default fields
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > existing schematic symbol fields which would
> > > > > break existing
> > > > > > > > > > BOMs
> > > > > > > > > > which I
> > > > > > > > > > don't think users will appreciate.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The proposed patch will only change default
> > > > > settings, existing
> > > > > > > > > users
> > > > > > > > > with a config already in place will not be
> > > > > affected. I realised
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the fields now accept empty values as well, so
> > > > > existing boms on
> > > > > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > > installations will not be affected either. I
> > > > > updated the patch,
> > > > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > will not affect anyone that doesnt use the
> > > > > fields.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [...] As I've stated before, I can set 10
> > > > > > > > > > different designers down and I will get 10
> > > > > different sets of
> > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > field names. This really seems like me to be a
> > > > > configuration
> > > > > > > > > > issue.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is the problems I want to address, because
> > > > > those 10
> > > > > > > > > designers
> > > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > by experience also spell the same field in 10
> > > > > different ways.
> > > > > > > > > Making
> > > > > > > > > their fields incompatable. MPN, MFPN, #mfg,
> > > > > ManufPart, etc etc.
> > > > > > > > > Let
> > > > > > > > > those 10 designers remove the fields they do not
> > > > > want instead.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The only possible solution that I would accept
> > > > > is to move the
> > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > field definitions from the eeschema
> > > > > configuration file into
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > kicad project file. This way existing projects
> > > > > would not be
> > > > > > > > > > polluted
> > > > > > > > > > with the proposed default fields and users
> > > > > could define their
> > > > > > > > > > own
> > > > > > > > > > default fields in a custom project file.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Default fields does not pollute if they are
> > > > > empty, they just
> > > > > > > > > give a
> > > > > > > > > hint of what data could be put into the
> > > > > schematic, same as with
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > datasheet field, which is not often used. Funny
> > > > > how noone ever
> > > > > > > > > complains about that one.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > > A more flexible solution would be to add a
> > > > > "File->New from
> > > > > > > > > > Custom
> > > > > > > > > > Template" command to KiCad to allow the user to
> > > > > select any
> > > > > > > > > > custom
> > > > > > > > > > project file. This would allow for multiple
> > > > > custom project
> > > > > > > > > > files
> > > > > > > > > > instead of forcing the user to use only a
> > > > > single default
> > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > file.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As long as the "File->New Project" would include
> > > > > the additional
> > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > and then people can use "New from Custom
> > > > > Template" means they
> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > use a
> > > > > > > > > template that is empty. Otherwise it would defeat
> > > > > the purpose.
> > > > > > > > > I am
> > > > > > > > > proposing a slightly different default
> > > > > configuration, not any
> > > > > > > > > change in
> > > > > > > > > how people will use the software.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Wayne
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On 05/20/2018 06:27 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > I agree, I had the same issue when I was
> > > > > doing my board, I
> > > > > > > > > > > needed a
> > > > > > > > > > > field for all components, and I had to
> > > > > manually add it for
> > > > > > > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > > > > item,
> > > > > > > > > > > there was no way to add this field to all
> > > > > components at the
> > > > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > > time or
> > > > > > > > > > > to have it add by default from the addition
> > > > > of a new
> > > > > > > > > > > component
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > the sheet.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Which reminds me, Cadence Designer has tools
> > > > > to manipulate
> > > > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > > > > > large scale, whether to add, delete, show,
> > > > > hide, etc, this
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > > that would be nice to have in KiCAD, either
> > > > > that or a table
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > components for the sheet or schematic and
> > > > > columns for each
> > > > > > > > > > > field,
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > ability to show/hide each cell individually.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I think the ultimate goal is to make the
> > > > > Symbol Table more
> > > > > > > > > > > useful,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > that'll take to long for v5 so if
> > > > > Kristoffer's patch allows
> > > > > > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > > > > easy
> > > > > > > > > > > way
> > > > > > > > > > > to add fields to all components or similar,
> > > > > I'd say do it
> > > > > > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > > > will be pissed and waste their time doing it
> > > > > for every
> > > > > > > > > > > component in
> > > > > > > > > > > their schematic.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:01 PM, kristoffer
> > > > > Ödmark
> > > > > > > > > > > <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristof
> > > > > ferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kristofferodmark90@gm <mailto:
> > > > > kristofferodmark90@gm>
> > > > > > > > > > > ail.
> > > > > > > > > > > com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I obvviously disagree, the correct
> > > > > solution would be to
> > > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > both.
> > > > > > > > > > > This does not hinder that, its not even
> > > > > the same
> > > > > > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The problem is for everyone who want for
> > > > > example the
> > > > > > > > > > > Manufacturer
> > > > > > > > > > > Part Number will have to define a
> > > > > fieldname, which every
> > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > results in them abbreviating it to
> > > > > something different.
> > > > > > > > > > > Hence
> > > > > > > > > > > nobody
> > > > > > > > > > > can work with Manufacturer Part Numbers.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Here is something similar, Imagine all of
> > > > > the colours in
> > > > > > > > > > > Kicad
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > all of the layers where white by default.
> > > > > Have fun
> > > > > > > > > > > defining
> > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > colours yourself.
> > > > > > > > > > > Maybe you want to define them yourself,
> > > > > nobody is
> > > > > > > > > > > stopping
> > > > > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > > now
> > > > > > > > > > > either, just get cracking.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > How easy would it be for you to look at
> > > > > the board
> > > > > > > > > > > someone
> > > > > > > > > > > else
> > > > > > > > > > > made
> > > > > > > > > > > later and understand what is what? Maybe
> > > > > for some that
> > > > > > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > > > > solution, but for me that
> > > > > > > > > > > would be an extreme example of bad default
> > > > > values.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This is how the default fields are now,
> > > > > they are white,
> > > > > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > see-throught, which makes life harder for
> > > > > anyone that
> > > > > > > > > > > wants to contribute or create tools that
> > > > > interact with
> > > > > > > > > > > kicad,
> > > > > > > > > > > and as
> > > > > > > > > > > I previously said, this is only a default,
> > > > > you are still
> > > > > > > > > > > equally able to add/remove or change the
> > > > > fields how you
> > > > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > to.
> > > > > > > > > > > But, tools like kibom or various other
> > > > > web-based tools
> > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > > > > > easier integrate to it, or at least
> > > > > support a default
> > > > > > > > > > > value
> > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > well.
> > > > > > > > > > > So for the majority of users, who doesnt
> > > > > change
> > > > > > > > > > > defaults,
> > > > > > > > > > > the tool would just work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I will reiterate, I do not care what they
> > > > > are named, I
> > > > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > default field where I can put my
> > > > > manufacturer part
> > > > > > > > > > > number,
> > > > > > > > > > > amongs
> > > > > > > > > > > others.
> > > > > > > > > > > The specific abbreviation or name does not
> > > > > matter, If i
> > > > > > > > > > > care, I
> > > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > manually add/remove my own fields *JUST AS
> > > > > I DO NOW*,
> > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > the people
> > > > > > > > > > > who use it, it will be easier across
> > > > > projects, for the
> > > > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > dont, It will not matter.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sane defaults matter. A lot actually.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > - Kristoffer
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On 2018-05-20 23:40, José Ignacio wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I dont like this, the right solution
> > > > > would be to
> > > > > > > > > > > allow
> > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > importing a default config into kicad
> > > > > for things
> > > > > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > that,
> > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > > > different groups will have different
> > > > > policies.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:31 PM,
> > > > > Kristoffer Ödmark
> > > > > > > > > > > <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:
> > > > > kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The patch should only affect first
> > > > > startup,
> > > > > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > > > will be saved
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On May 20, 2018 22:18, "Seth
> > > > > Hillbrand"
> > > > > > > > > > > <seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth
> > > > > .hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:seth.hillbrand@gma <mailto:seth
> > > > > .hillbrand@gma>
> > > > > > > > > > > il.c
> > > > > > > > > > > om>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Kristoffer-
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This feels like a management
> > > > > issue rather
> > > > > > > > > > > than a
> > > > > > > > > > > tool
> > > > > > > > > > > issue.
> > > > > > > > > > > If the user doesn't want any
> > > > > extra fields,
> > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > would your
> > > > > > > > > > > patch allow that?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -S
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Am So., 20. Mai 2018 um 13:00
> > > > > Uhr schrieb
> > > > > > > > > > > kristoffer Ödmark
> > > > > > > > > > > <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@gma
> > > > > il.com <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > > <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>>>:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I will open this can of
> > > > > worms again, I
> > > > > > > > > > > feel
> > > > > > > > > > > that I have
> > > > > > > > > > > to. So from what
> > > > > > > > > > > I gather we have
> > > > > proffessionals as the
> > > > > > > > > > > main
> > > > > > > > > > > aim
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > Kicad.
> > > > > > > > > > > The reason I will open
> > > > > this issue again
> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > > feel we
> > > > > > > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > > > > > collaboration issue, maybe
> > > > > not a mayor
> > > > > > > > > > > one.
> > > > > > > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > > > nonetheless.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We really need more
> > > > > default fields for
> > > > > > > > > > > our
> > > > > > > > > > > schematic
> > > > > > > > > > > symbols. Im not
> > > > > > > > > > > proposing required fields,
> > > > > I am *ONLY*
> > > > > > > > > > > proposing that
> > > > > > > > > > > there should be default
> > > > > fields added
> > > > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > default
> > > > > > > > > > > fields settings
> > > > > > > > > > > tab. I am not proposing
> > > > > they need to be
> > > > > > > > > > > filled
> > > > > > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > > > > libraries, nor that people
> > > > > need to use
> > > > > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > > > only that
> > > > > > > > > > > they need to
> > > > > > > > > > > exist with a fresh install
> > > > > of kicad so
> > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > easy
> > > > > > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > > > > such as theese do not
> > > > > happen:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > - Collaborators
> > > > > working on the same
> > > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > > will not
> > > > > > > > > > > create
> > > > > > > > > > > duplicate fields in
> > > > > libs/projects
> > > > > > > > > > > describing
> > > > > > > > > > > the same
> > > > > > > > > > > thing by mistake
> > > > > > > > > > > - Projects that aim
> > > > > to interact or
> > > > > > > > > > > add
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > Kicad can
> > > > > > > > > > > assume that the
> > > > > > > > > > > Fields will exist, and
> > > > > will know what
> > > > > > > > > > > name/tag
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > look for
> > > > > > > > > > > (bom exporters,
> > > > > price checkers,
> > > > > > > > > > > MacroFab, etc)
> > > > > > > > > > > - Open source
> > > > > projects will be
> > > > > > > > > > > easier
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > collaborate,
> > > > > > > > > > > read and order
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The reason I think it is
> > > > > better to have
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > fields by
> > > > > > > > > > > default than the
> > > > > > > > > > > current solution to add
> > > > > them is that the
> > > > > > > > > > > majority
> > > > > > > > > > > will use
> > > > > > > > > > > what exists, and tools can
> > > > > support it
> > > > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > > beginning, people
> > > > > > > > > > > with inhouse tools seems
> > > > > to dislike
> > > > > > > > > > > this,
> > > > > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > map their
> > > > > > > > > > > parts with an inhouse
> > > > > number - and then
> > > > > > > > > > > handle
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > information about the
> > > > > > > > > > > part there. From what I
> > > > > gather, this is
> > > > > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > majority, and
> > > > > > > > > > > these persons still modify
> > > > > the default
> > > > > > > > > > > fields
> > > > > > > > > > > settings.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I spent maybe 30-40 mins
> > > > > checking the
> > > > > > > > > > > "made
> > > > > > > > > > > with kicad"
> > > > > > > > > > > projects, I
> > > > > > > > > > > found that the most common
> > > > > addition to
> > > > > > > > > > > libs
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > schematics
> > > > > > > > > > > are:
> > > > > > > > > > > - Manufacturers part
> > > > > number, these
> > > > > > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > > > named
> > > > > > > > > > > widely
> > > > > > > > > > > different in
> > > > > > > > > > > projects, (BOM, MP, MPN,
> > > > > #mfg, or
> > > > > > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > > > syntaxes in
> > > > > > > > > > > the Value field )
> > > > > > > > > > > I even saw a mix
> > > > > of these in
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > > > once, along with
> > > > > > > > > > > some people having the
> > > > > vendor id only.
> > > > > > > > > > > - Manufacturer (
> > > > > found some
> > > > > > > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > > > > languages
> > > > > > > > > > > though )
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > more uncommon things was,
> > > > > Tolerance(
> > > > > > > > > > > 10%,
> > > > > > > > > > > 20pps),
> > > > > > > > > > > Ratings
> > > > > > > > > > > ( 1/4W, 85C,
> > > > > > > > > > > 16V ), Vendor information
> > > > > and different
> > > > > > > > > > > Descriptions. They
> > > > > > > > > > > were named
> > > > > > > > > > > and abbreviated
> > > > > > > > > > > very differently accross
> > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What I would like to see
> > > > > is these
> > > > > > > > > > > additional
> > > > > > > > > > > fields by
> > > > > > > > > > > default, but
> > > > > > > > > > > hidden from the schematic
> > > > > unless changed
> > > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > > user.
> > > > > > > > > > > Tolerance ( used for
> > > > > setting
> > > > > > > > > > > tolerances
> > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > resistors,
> > > > > > > > > > > capacitors,
> > > > > > > > > > > oscillators, etc )
> > > > > > > > > > > MaxRating ( field
> > > > > were one can
> > > > > > > > > > > specify
> > > > > > > > > > > max
> > > > > > > > > > > Voltage,
> > > > > > > > > > > Ampere,
> > > > > > > > > > > Frequency, or whatever the
> > > > > component
> > > > > > > > > > > needs )
> > > > > > > > > > > Manufacturer ( For
> > > > > inhouse numbers,
> > > > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > > > > > either
> > > > > > > > > > > just remove
> > > > > > > > > > > it, or use the
> > > > > company/group name )
> > > > > > > > > > > MPN ( Maybe
> > > > > PartNumber could be
> > > > > > > > > > > used
> > > > > > > > > > > here,
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > > > who use
> > > > > > > > > > > inhouse numbers use it
> > > > > aswell, I dont
> > > > > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > > care
> > > > > > > > > > > what its
> > > > > > > > > > > called, as
> > > > > > > > > > > long as its called
> > > > > something )
> > > > > > > > > > > Vendor
> > > > > > > > > > > Notes
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I would be all up for
> > > > > extra
> > > > > > > > > > > additions/removals,
> > > > > > > > > > > but I
> > > > > > > > > > > would prefer if
> > > > > > > > > > > the naming is not
> > > > > discussed, but rather
> > > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > > decided/agreed upon by
> > > > > > > > > > > someone in the lead team.
> > > > > > > > > > > The very least I think
> > > > > should be added
> > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > case
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > previous is to much are:
> > > > > > > > > > > Tolerance
> > > > > > > > > > > Manufacturer
> > > > > > > > > > > MPN
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I attach a patch for the
> > > > > minimal set,
> > > > > > > > > > > tested
> > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > linux by
> > > > > > > > > > > removing the
> > > > > > > > > > > .config/kicad/eeschema
> > > > > file.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > - Kristoffer
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > ps
> > > > > > > > > > > Some github files i
> > > > > reviewed, not all:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/ana
> > > > > vi-gardening/b <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gard
> > > > > ening/b>
> > > > > > > > > > > lob/
> > > > > > > > > > > mas
> > > > > > > > > > > ter/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/an
> > > > > avi-gardening/ <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gard
> > > > > ening/>
> > > > > > > > > > > blob
> > > > > > > > > > > /ma
> > > > > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/an
> > > > > avi-gardening/ <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gard
> > > > > ening/>
> > > > > > > > > > > blob
> > > > > > > > > > > /ma
> > > > > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/an
> > > > > avi-gardening/ <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gard
> > > > > ening/>
> > > > > > > > > > > blob
> > > > > > > > > > > /ma
> > > > > > > > > > > ster/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/bl
> > > > > ob/master/Blix <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/mast
> > > > > er/Blix>
> > > > > > > > > > > ten%
> > > > > > > > > > > 20L
> > > > > > > > > > > ED%20Device/Blixten.sch
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/b
> > > > > lob/master/Bli <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/mast
> > > > > er/Bli>
> > > > > > > > > > > xten
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/b
> > > > > lob/master/Bli <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/mast
> > > > > er/Bli>
> > > > > > > > > > > xten
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/b
> > > > > lob/master/Bli <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/mast
> > > > > er/Bli>
> > > > > > > > > > > xten
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/paltatech/half-brid
> > > > > ge/blob/master <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob
> > > > > /master>
> > > > > > > > > > > /pcb
> > > > > > > > > > > %20
> > > > > > > > > > > design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bri
> > > > > dge/blob/maste <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob
> > > > > /maste>
> > > > > > > > > > > r/pc
> > > > > > > > > > > b%2
> > > > > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bri
> > > > > dge/blob/maste <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob
> > > > > /maste>
> > > > > > > > > > > r/pc
> > > > > > > > > > > b%2
> > > > > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bri
> > > > > dge/blob/maste <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob
> > > > > /maste>
> > > > > > > > > > > r/pc
> > > > > > > > > > > b%2
> > > > > > > > > > > 0design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/b
> > > > > lob/master/sch <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/sch>
> > > > > > > > > > > /cap
> > > > > > > > > > > _sm
> > > > > > > > > > > d.lib
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/
> > > > > blob/master/sc <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/sc>
> > > > > > > > > > > h/ca
> > > > > > > > > > > p_s
> > > > > > > > > > > md.lib>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/
> > > > > blob/master/sc <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/sc>
> > > > > > > > > > > h/ca
> > > > > > > > > > > p_s
> > > > > > > > > > > md.lib <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/
> > > > > blob/master/sc <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/mas
> > > > > ter/sc>
> > > > > > > > > > > h/ca
> > > > > > > > > > > p_sm
> > > > > > > > > > > d.lib>>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/
> > > > > master/schemat <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/
> > > > > schemat>
> > > > > > > > > > > ic_p
> > > > > > > > > > > cb/
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob
> > > > > /master/schema <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/
> > > > > schema>
> > > > > > > > > > > tic_
> > > > > > > > > > > pcb
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob
> > > > > /master/schema <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/
> > > > > schema>
> > > > > > > > > > > tic_
> > > > > > > > > > > pcb
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob
> > > > > /master/schema <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/
> > > > > schema>
> > > > > > > > > > > tic_
> > > > > > > > > > > pcb
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > /electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > ____
> > > > > > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > > > > > Mailing list:
> > > > > > > > > > > https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developer
> > > > > s <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>
> > > > > > > > > > > <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-develope
> > > > > rs <https://launchpad.net/%7Ekicad-developers>>
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> > > > > > > > > <0001-Added-default-fields-not-affect-previous-
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> > > > > designs.patch>_______________________________________________
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> >
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References
-
More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer Ödmark, 2018-05-20
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Seth Hillbrand, 2018-05-20
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Kristoffer Ödmark, 2018-05-20
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: José Ignacio, 2018-05-20
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer Ödmark, 2018-05-20
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Andrey Kuznetsov, 2018-05-20
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Wayne Stambaugh, 2018-05-21
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer ödmark, 2018-05-22
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Jeff Young, 2018-05-22
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer ödmark, 2018-05-22
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Ben Hest, 2018-05-22
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: kristoffer ödmark, 2018-05-22
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Fabrizio Tappero, 2018-05-22
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Reece R. Pollack, 2018-05-28
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Jeff Young, 2018-05-29
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Reece R. Pollack, 2018-05-29
-
Re: More default fields in schematic
From: Clemens Koller, 2018-05-29
