openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Joël Grand-Guillaume <joel.grandguillaume@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear all,

In order to move forward as Fabien said, I suggest to write down on a pad
what we do think OCB is and how do we see it. I started something here:

http://pad.openerp.com/p/OCB-Branches

It's mainly inspired by this discussion and by the definition Stefan made
on the LP project and first description on the mailing. I though it was the
best we have currently and on which we mainly all agree at the beginning.

This is just a first draft, please add your changes and suggestions.

Regards,

Joël




On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> In order to move forward, the next step is to draft a community
> statement on the role of OCB branches. Because it looks like you expect
> more than the initial goals (backport of bugs fixed in trunk on v7)
>
> What do you expect from the ocb branches? Possible answers:
>
> 1/ A more "up-to-date" branch where bugfixes are applied by the
>    community faster than in official v7.
> 2/ A way to improve collaboration OpenERP SA-Community by having a way
>    to simplify the code review process for OpenERP SA to merge faster in
>    stable.
> 3/ A branch where you can push nice-to-have or wishlist features that
>    you need for your projects or community modules
> 4/ A branch where you can improve the code in a more 'clean' way by
>    breaking API, schema...
> 5/ A way to change design decisions such as default behaviors or values
>    on which you may disagree on the path chosen in the stable branch
>
>
> And it's important to balance this, with the 'cost' or responsibilities
> indirectly linked to these roles:
>
> 1/ If the goal of ocb is to have a more stable branch, are you ready to
>    apply strict stable policies which slows down the MP process and
>    forces to refuse more MP.
>
> 2/ If the goal is to have both project (ocb-stable) to benefit from
>    each other, are you ready to accept our code review decisions so
>    that you can continuously merge back stable into ocb. (e.g. if we
>    revert some of your changes while doing our code review and merging
>    ocb in stable, would you merge this change back to ocb or will you
>    maintain separate features?)
>
> 3/ If you want to push new features in OCB rather than putting them in
>    community modules, are you ready to accept potential new regressions
>    and bugs.
>
> 4/ If you want to be able to break API or schema to improve code, are
>    you ready to pay an extra effort every time you want to apply latest
>    bugfixes in your production environments. (no conflict with your
>    custom module, -u, ...)
>
> 5/ If you want to use ocb to apply others design decisions than the
>    stable one, are you ready to maintain this fork for the long term?
>    v8, v9, ...
>
>
> If we succeed to answer these, then everyone will probably agree on the
> best way to organise MP and ocb branches.
>
> On 10/29/2013 10:09 AM, Joël Grand-Guillaume wrote:
> > Dear Fabien,
> >
> >
> > First, thank you a lot for your input in here, this prove (as you said)
> > your interest in that ! For being too rude, there no problem on my side,
> > I know you for quite a while now and I won't take it personally, I
> > always preferred the thinking being said ! That's the way we move things
> !
> >
> > We do use OCB at Camptocamp without exception in ALL our customers
> > projects. I share more than ever Stefan's Opinion :
> >
> > "
> > /So we still disagree (no surprises there) but OCB is working perfectly
> > for us. When running OCB, we can be sure that every approved bugfix that
> > we supplied is included so that we don't encounter the same bugs again
> > for every customer. A dedicated group of community developers (and their
> > customers) is benefiting from each other's quality bugfixes and reviews.
> > I love it. It has taught me a lot on programming, communities, code
> > standards and OpenERP itself. It has improved my life with OpenERP in
> > terms of practicalities and got me in contact with a lot of knowledgable
> > and friendly people that I now consider my extended colleagues./
> > "
> >
> > Reasons for OCB to exists:
> >
> >  * We can share efforts between well experienced integrators to fix and
> > ensure those fix in time for our customers
> >  * We really have now a strong knowledge in there that probably exceed
> > yours in various areas (no offense)
> >  * We can fix what OpenERP SA don't want to consider (for good and some
> > times no good reasons IMO)
> >  * We have a way to react much more faster when facing a trouble, and my
> > customers are very happy with that trust me (OPW works, but take a hell
> > of time until it land in our customer server)
> >  * In complex integrations that we do, some changes are required to make
> > OpenERP work in production, changes that my not be compatible with your
> > policies. That do not need we don't need them !
> >
> > On your remarks:
> >
> >  * OCB didn't introduce more bugs (or not more than you do), some tests
> > fails because they are wrong and need to be adapted / corrected that's
> > probably 99% of the reasons why OCB is not green !
> >
> >  * OCB do take some other choice than OpenERP SA do regarding some
> > "won't fix" or "invalid" bugs as we do not consider those bug as this.
> > It's may be a matter of opinion, I respect that. I can't simply say to
> > my customers I don't want to fix, you have the right of saying so.
> >
> >  * OCB reviews are probably as good (and IMO better) than yours. We can
> > make mistake, that's human. We really take care about what we're doing
> > here and that comes from the most skilled partners and integrators you
> > have. If they don't make things good who do ?
> >
> >  * OCB need to improve on the review process and tests I agree and we're
> > working on it !
> >
> > My personal opinion concerning OCB (that's just me) is that in some time
> > (not that long, may be a year or two), OCB will be more than a
> > reference. We'll grow as a community, we'll get stronger and better. And
> > we'll one day have more resources than OpenERP SA it-self (which is not
> > the case yet). As you said, the question is know how to better integrate
> > OCB with Stable (and vice-versa) to benefit from that.
> >
> > We're on the same ship here as always. Everyone has his own interests
> > about keeping the stable policy here and make it different there. At a
> > point, you may not agree on some changes, that's your right. We think
> > the changes we've made are mandatory. We are ready to manage and
> > maintain those changes for the good of our customers.
> >
> > So, at the end, the question will be : How OpenERP SA can benefit from
> > us ;) ?!
> >
> > I'm not in favor of having 2 OCB branches (too much work). I think OCB
> > should be part of the Official project (it deserve it). Weekly merge
> > from OCB to Stable should be done with your review (accepting what you
> > want, and not what you don't). This is manageable and you will still get
> > lot's of input from us (making the bugfix process quicker). You'll spend
> > less time merging our work with some filter rather than re-making the
> > fix we already did.
> >
> > A day or another, the OCB changes will land in trunk or die depending on
> > the fact it has been proven to be mandatory for everyone or a mistake
> > from us (OCB team). I make the bet we're gonna be right more than you
> > may think, but surely not always.
> >
> > I see no better solution given the interest of both of us, and I
> > consider a good one, what do you think ?
> >
> > Thanks for all this enthusiast,
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> > Joël
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 7:31 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     > Sorry but my feeling is this suddent interest from S.A. in OCB is
> >     more about "control" and "fear"...  If you really want to help, stop
> >     spreading FUD
> >
> >     No. Sorry if I was not clear.
> >
> >     My only intention is to have an ocb branch that works so that people
> >     can rely on it and we can easily merge it in stable to improve ocb.
> >
> >
> >     I seriously think that if we define a better policy and process than
> >     the current one, ocb can become a great way to improve community
> >     contribution to the stable branch.
> >
> >     I also think that if you continue diverging from the stable and
> >     accept anything in ocb branches, ocb will become less and less
> >     interesting for the community.
> >
> >     My preceeding mail is may be too rude. But I really thing it's
> >     important for ocb branch to setup a test server and a better merge
> >     policy.
> >
> >     As I said; this is my point of view and we will support your
> >     decision about what you want to do with ocb.
> >
> >
> >     > and start showing that you respect and appreciate the work from
> >     our community, and that is only possible with ACTIONS, not words....
> >
> >     I do appreciate the community and such great contribution. (OpenERP
> >     would not be open source, if we did not have an inconditionaly full
> >     support for open source and community)
> >
> >     If I participate to these mail, it's to help ocb move forward and do
> >     even better. Do you think it's better if don't tell you what we
> think?
> >
> >     I think ocb can be great if we improve a few things (runbot, clear
> >     policy, stricter code review) and that's the reason why I give you
> >     my point of view.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     Fabien
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > *camptocamp*
> > INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
> > BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS
> >
> > *Joël Grand-Guillaume*
> > Division Manager
> > Business Solutions
> >
> > +41 21 619 10 28
> > www.camptocamp.com <http://www.camptocamp.com/>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Fabien Pinckaers
> CEO OpenERP
> Chaussée de Namur 40
> B-1367 Grand-Rosière
> Belgium
> Phone: +32.81.81.37.00
> Fax: +32.81.73.35.01
> Web: http://openerp.com
>



-- 


*camptocamp*
INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS

*Joël Grand-Guillaume*
Division Manager
Business Solutions

+41 21 619 10 28
www.camptocamp.com