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Re: Too early for ToriOS to change its path


(inlines below)
On 08/06/2018 05:05 PM, ml@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> On Sun, August 5, 2018 6:20 pm, Israel wrote:
>> Does picaxo perform the same minimal functions that a program like
>> lximage does?
> picaxo is extremely minimal but very fast.  Should handle any image
> formats that sdl_image does.  It does a few basic things like rotate an
> image.  There are at least 2 or 3 FLTK based image viewers that would
> probably be more on a par with lximage.  I remember viewers with EDE, Tiny
> Core and nanolinux.
I could easily make an image viewer in FLTK (I already have to code in
various places) that is extremely minimal (views images, that's it)...
but we already use ImageMagick, which is very powerful, but not as user
friendly as some applications.
>>>> 3. create FLTK versions of all the X11 apps (calc, text editor,
>>>> etc...)
>>> For calc, I like flcalc.
>> Do you have the source?  The link on fltk.org is dead :(
> Seems to be back up.  Direct link is:
> http://membres-timc.imag.fr/Yves.Usson/personnel/mysofts.html
> I'll put together my build script and patches with the original source and
> try to upload them to the link mentioned here  (
> http://www.distasis.com/cpp/lmports.htm ) as soon as I have time to.  I'm
> adding in a fix to flcalc to deal with some font issues for rendering pi
> and epsilon which I just noticed while testing today.  Would it pay to add
> libintl support and be able to internationalize the math related words on
> the calculator keys or are they fairly understandable as is?
I like adding in support for other languages as much as possible, even
if I don't always do it right away!  I know programmers generally know
enough English to use most programs, but the target audience for ToriOS
is very broad.  We target the general user, people who only use a
computer as an appliance, to the power user who wants to control all
aspects of their computer.
Making things simple is part of the reason I make all Close/Cancel/Quit
buttons RED and all OK buttons GREEN.  Even if you can't read the word,
the color tells you what it says.
>> If fldev have syntax highlighting I'd much rather include it than
>> anything else.
> Don't remember.  Georg's version (based on the original fldev) is here:
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/fldev/
> I have the original code somewhere too.
> Some interesting FLTK apps here including some basic editors:
> https://github.com/spartrekus/
yeah I looked at his editor, and it is the tutorial from FLTK just
modified slightly.  But as it is it wouldn't compile.  I guess I could
do the same, and make a text editor using the code form the Tutorial as
> Also, flabc has some basic editing capabilities.
I remember that article saying that.  I think something along the lines
of leafpad, but with syntax highlighting available would be what I am
looking for.  Simple, but able to do things that are needed.
>> I've played with some of those, like flvlc. 
> I like flxine as well.  I've used the original version, but someone's
> worked on it and added features to a new version.
I haven't used that one.  I don't use xine front end as much... really I
have been using VLC for so long, I don't usually try anything else...
kind of how I feel about Netscape Navigator/Firefox.  That said, I will
try to look at flxine when I get a chance.
>> I have looked at the source for some of their stuff before, like flburn.
>> My main concern with most FLTK apps, is most do not look nice right out
>> of the box.
> I kind of like the look of the FLTK apps.  I personally like the Luna
> Silver theme look from Windows and try to recreate it on various systems. 
> One of the reasons I like jwm is that it's much easier to get that kind of
> theme look for the tops of windows than it is to do with Openbox.  Am
> wondering if the FLTK apps would look better to you if you changed the
> FLTK theme.  I've been using Dmitrij's oxy theme with a patched version of
> FLTK.  Got tired of patching, so I submitting the patch to FLTK (for a
> second time).  This time, it was just the basics for the oxy theme, but I
> figured if we can just get it in to the official build, it can always be
> improved on later.
I have thought about making a default theme for FLTK, but my main
concern is to make things really consistent.  Every OK button should be
green, and every Cancel/Quit button should be red.  Every button that
has a system effect that requires caution should be Yellow.

This design principle is for accessibility.  Visually impaired people
can tell (unless color blind) which button is which easily.  OK and
Cancel are easy to distinguish and infer what they mean.  There is no
use for added "Are you sure?"  dialogs.
People who cannot read English very well should be able to navigate the
program on a basic level and do some things without needed to read.

So I would likely modify all sources to include those basic ideas.  I
also try to minimize the internal borders of items and add scroll view
to allow them to work on small screens... too many programs forget low
resolution monitors.
>> i specifically want it to handle most things common users expect in a
>> modern OS, things like mtp/gvfs and handling the desktop (i.e. adding
>> icons on the desktop, etc...), automatic volume mounting, and offering the
>> choice of what to do (play the DVD/CD/open the Phone's SD card etc...)  If
>> any of those handle that I am interested!
> Sounds like all the things I don't use in a file manager, so I wouldn't
> know which ones offered that or not.  For automatic mounting of USB, etc.,
> I use usbmount which works with udev: 
> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/usbmount  Added benefit is that
> usbmount works just fine outside of X Windows if I'm working for the
> command line only.
We have used usbmount in the past... a few years ago.  The automatic
mounting is primarily for the user who does not know computers well. 
They expect something to happen immediately when they plug in their

ToriOS also allows multiple file managers, so if the user removes
PCManFM and installs another file manager, it will not remove all the
ToriOS packages, this is to take in account the power user who has their
preferred file manager
> I think nanolinux adds icons via the window manager not the file manager.
JWM is not completely capable of doing this.  I have seen some clever
hacks to add this ability in through complex adding of single item
panels/Trays but it makes things messier, and harder to read
>> We use xpdf, but a nicer one would be good.
> Are you using xpdf from the command line or is there a front-end or GUI
> that you use with it?
There is only a GuI for the xpdf I am familiar with.  Is xpdf the name
of a library as well?  because there is an xpdf (X11-pdf) that uses the
Xlibs to draw the window, etc..
>>> At the moment, I'm working on a project that most people probably won't
>>> be interested in.  Most distributions tend to prefer minimal changes to
>>> Open
>>> Source projects.  I prefer customizing code to provide whatever features
>>> I
>>> might need.
>> That is what Libre software is for :)
> That's so nice to hear!  So many people I talk to want everything working
> out-of-the-box and don't want anything changed or customized.  They prefer
> to make the least changes to upstream code possible.
That goes against the entire reason GNU started.  When something on your
computer doesn't do what you want, or work right (to you), you should be
free to modify it, and then share your changes IF other people want
them.  You definitely share your changes so you are fully in line with
the GNU principals that I appreciate.
> Sincerely,
> Laura Michaels


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