kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx>]

> There is a "Save Current Sheet" in the File menu.

Ha!  I hadn’t even noticed that.  So we do actually support both operations.

> I'm fine with dropping "Project" from the tooltip.  Maybe "Save all 
> schematic sheets" would be a better tooltip.

Sure, as long as we change the File menu entry too (to not use “Project”).

Which icon?  Generic disk icon, schematic-with-disk icon, or multi-sheet-schematic-with-disk icon?

(Andrey had me leaning to the generic disk icon, and with the above I’d lean even stronger in that direction.  I assume you agree?)


> On 13 Jan 2018, at 22:23, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> I don't think you are giving our users much credit.  I could be wrong
> but I would think most user understand that the schematic is not just
> the current sheet.  There is a "Save Current Sheet" in the File menu.
> I'm fine with dropping "Project" from the tooltip.  Maybe "Save all
> schematic sheets" would be a better tooltip.
> 
> On 01/13/2018 03:50 PM, Jeff Young wrote:
>> But without a tooltip, how is anyone to know that?  The window shows
>> only a single sheet at a time.  One might be forgiven for concluding
>> that the save button will only save the current one.  (Or even worrying
>> that it might, and cycling through all the sheets hitting Save.)
>> 
>> Having a context-sensitive tooltip doesn’t get in the way or add more
>> complexity — it just clarifies the issue for those who don’t know, or
>> those who are worriers.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 13 Jan 2018, at 20:10, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just because a schematic has more than one sheet (file), complex or
>>> otherwise does not mean we have a different save context.  You are still
>>> saving the current schematic no matter how may files are involved.
>>> Please do *not* do this.
>>> 
>>> On 01/13/2018 03:06 PM, Andrey Kuznetsov wrote:
>>>> You already said the save will save everything, now you want to
>>>> introduce differentiating icons/tooltips that will add complexity to the
>>>> most simple tasks that will already do the implied function without the
>>>> need for clarifying what is sheet and what is hierarchy. No changing
>>>> tooltips based on single sheet vs hierarchy.
>>>> 
>>>> Now that I understand what you are after.
>>>> 
>>>> I suggest:
>>>> Save icon with multiple diskettes (multiple will imply it will save
>>>> everything, whether it's 1 sheet or hierarchy, the function will save
>>>> all, so there's no need for a single diskette)
>>>> Tooltip: ii
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    Just to be clear on the context-specific options: the idea is to
>>>>    make hierarchical schematics a progressive disclosure feature.  So a
>>>>    less-sophisticated user happy with a one-sheet schematic wouldn’t
>>>>    have to deal with tooltips and/or icons relating to hierarchies.
>>>> 
>>>>    So there would always be a single icon visible at any given time
>>>>    (and a single function available), but the icon and/or tooltip might
>>>>    be different depending on the context.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>    On 13 Jan 2018, at 19:48, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>    <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>    The /function/ is always the same: save as many sheets as there
>>>>>    are.  The only question is how to communicate that to the user.
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Your reply sounds like a vote for (a)(ii), although you weren’t
>>>>>    specific about the tooltip side of things.
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Cheers,
>>>>>    Jeff.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>    On 13 Jan 2018, at 19:23, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>    <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    What is the problem with saving ALL schematics in the project
>>>>>>    that have been edited, whether it's a 1 sheet or heirarchy sheet
>>>>>>    project?
>>>>>>    Are there times when you only want to save that sheet but not the
>>>>>>    other sheets? If yes, then maybe add 2 save buttons, save and
>>>>>>    save all, if not then just the save all button
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    I am against using schematic icon with a disk, too much complexity!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    You should simply use:
>>>>>>    Disk icon for Save
>>>>>>    and/or
>>>>>>    Multi-Disk icon for Save All
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    There is no purpose in indicating that you want to save a
>>>>>>    schematic in a schematic application when calling for a Save.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 3:15 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>    <mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        The eeschema Save button’s tooltip reads “save schematic
>>>>>>        /project/” (emphasis mine).  Because of that, it got the
>>>>>>        project-with-superimposed-disk in the recent icon update.  I
>>>>>>        don’t think either of those is optimal.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        There are 3 distinct concepts:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        1) Kicad projects (containing schematics, PCBs, gerbers, etc.)
>>>>>>        2) A hierarchy of schematic sheets
>>>>>>        3) A single schematic sheet
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        The differentiation between (2) and (3) is a bit confusing
>>>>>>        because the eeschema window only deals with (2) while we
>>>>>>        represent schemas in the file-system at (3).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        But we should make every effort not to conflate (1) with
>>>>>>        (2).  I think the word “project” should be reserved for use
>>>>>>        in the context of (1).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        So I can see 4 options for the eeschema Save option:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        a) sidestep the issue and go with the arrow-to-disk icon (a
>>>>>>        la pcbnew)
>>>>>>        b) use a schematic-with-superimposed-disk icon
>>>>>>        c) use a stacked-schematic-with-superimposed-disk icon (a la
>>>>>>        the hierarchical-sheet-tool icon)
>>>>>>        d) context-sensitive schematic or stacked-schematic icon
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        And a few for the tooltip:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        i) use “save all schematics in hierarchy”
>>>>>>        ii) use “save schematic(s)” 
>>>>>>        iii) make it context-sensitive, reading either “save
>>>>>>        schematic” or “save all schematics in hierarchy”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        Personally, I think context-sensitivity is appropriate for
>>>>>>        the tool-tip, but not the icon.  So I’d be inclined to go
>>>>>>        with (b) or (c) and (iii).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        As an aside, project files (*.pro) are still using the
>>>>>>        application icon, rather than the Project icon.  That makes
>>>>>>        the New Project / New Project from Template / Open Project
>>>>>>        icons harder to understand.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        Cheers,
>>>>>>        Jeff.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>        BTW: I’m happy to help fix up any of these issues….
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    -- 
>>>>>>    Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>>>>>    Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to
>>>>>>    miss the future [JFK]
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>    Live Long and Prosper,
>>>>>>    Andrey
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>>> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss the
>>>> future [JFK]
>>>> 
>>>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Live Long and Prosper,
>>>> Andrey
>>>> 
>>>> 
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