openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Carlos Guerrero <guerrerocarlos@xxxxxxxxx>]

I agree with Nhomar, plus I believe that there is a better solution to this
"GTK vs WEB" discussion that nobody seems to mention:

Since we can actually have web inside GTK using webkit, all the
"only-possible-with-web-technologies" modules, could use this webkit
container to be shown in the GTK client, just like they where directly in a
normal web browser.

I dont see the need to sacrifice GTK because of WEB, technically they can
both coexist and be compatible between each other. Having a webkit
container inside GTK and using it only when opening a web-dependant module,
so modules can be used as usual in GTK, and look like inside a web browser
when needed, so modules can still get the best of the GTK world and the web
world at the same time. Plus having all the expected functionality when
used directly by web. Why not do it this way?

I know this wouldn't be trivial, but I know that it could be achieved,
keeping OpenERP in the privileged position it is right now.

Hoping to be doing a constructive contribution to this discussion.
Best Regards.

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Nhomar Hernández <nhomar@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hello Community.
>
> We in Vauxoo analize very deeply this answer what we will give, and we
> cant to share with you our conclusions.
>
> First of all, i must to say, since day 1 we have invested everything in
> Fabien's vision called OpenERP,
> we work in pro of this this PoV and we believe, when they take a desition
> they deeply beleive in the community as an actor in all the proccess.
> This doesn't mean we are always agreed, it means we beleive and work on
> it, when they fail, we say aloud and they answered to us always.
>
> Said this i proceed to describe our conclusions, because are a little hard
> and i want to be sure it is all taken in the correct way, BUILD TOGHETHER
> THE BEST ERP IN THE WORLD.
>
> 1.- Fork GTK client is just an option if some points are covered:
>     a.- OpenERP is agreed in develop propagating the context in all them
> 200 modules.
>     b.- OpenERP is agreed with this Fork.
>     c.- We have some kind of secure way to offer commercial support
> between community memebrs will be in charge.
>     d.- OpenERP mantain a minimal backguard compatibility in future not
> developing gtk client, developing @THinking@ in the existency of this
> fork.
>
> 2.- From a Commercial PoV, i think we are chetting with this decition to
> our customers, in the last Partner Days, Fabien explicitly said they will
> not stop mantain GTK client, in 6 month he change his mind, What will i say
> to my customers? that they will need invest X thousand dollar in re-train
> +1000 users? if i was SaP it should be for me a good news,
> but we are not, this kind of moves are the ones make us move from
> privative to Open solutions 12 years ago.
>
> 3.- From the technical PoV, is really hard mantain both clients, but this
> is basically because the leak of openess in some dev process and the leak
> of SQA, i mean, Today, we have process that don't pass correctly the
> context (Unique way to work with both clients), and it brings a lot of
> problems, other thing is, the leak of central processing related to
> workflows, a lot of thing are hard written and avoid a real centralized
> part with the business objects, but BTW other history problem.
>
> 4.- I think one of our BEST approach is the fact of have 2 Official
> CLIENTS, that allow customers have the good part of both worlds (desktop
> and Web), today all our cleints use both clients, because they are good for
> @different things@.
>
> 5.- About Backguard Compatibility, at least today, we have 2 years to
> migrate customers to 7.0, it must not be done tomorrow, we have 2 years to
> convince them that Web is better, BUT, @fabien read very well, This
> desition is TAKING OFF 50% of usability of OpenERP, 50% of useability,
> already supported by an OpW, im not talking about community, Our cutomers
> bought an OPW for Security, Migration and Stability, not to lose 50% of
> funcionability, and then we must send our Salesman and ourself to convince
> them that Web is Good. IMHO They Buy Support and Warranty for 2 clients NOT
> ONE, How do i discuss this argument my friend? (already said by 2 of my
> customers).
>
> 6.- About the agument "We prefer mantain 1 very well than 2 bad", Ok, Im
> agreed, and i respect this Point of view, but the real situation is that
> you dont have 1 very well, because, the real fact is that we dont have a
> lot of funcinalities that we had in v6.1, I think, we [OpenERP Sa and
> Community] mantain at least 2 more Versions 7.0 and 8.0 the compatibility
> with GTK, and after this decide, HTML 5 and a lot of concepts are improved
> in v7.0 (and almost all are really extraordinary) are just this "Concepts"
> we must test first and not beleive WE have the absolute reason, [This is
> one of the issues separate a lot of people from PRivative one], i think we
> can make a plan for 3 years of support with constant innovation and the
> plan to STOP GTK support, but not from today to tomorrow, IMHO it is a leak
> of responsability friend, or at least i feel this with our customers.
>
> 7.- About the plan:
>
> I think we need some features ABSOLUTLY NECESARIES in V7.0 if desition is
> taken to be able to deploy correctly transition.
> 1.- Menus ala admin menu (Already in v6.1) we use A LOT this feature:
> http://drupal.org/files/images/Administration-menu.png
> 2.- Copy and paste to use tree information on a spreadsheet, it can be
> solve easyly if we include this feature (not with excel with direct csv).
> You can implement freely as you think is te correct way, but it can
> replace the copy-paste just neede to quickly pass to excel y/0 OO.
>
> http://planet.domsense.com/en/2012/06/openerp-how-to-export-current-tree-view-to-xls-use-web_export_view/
> 3.- Print Screen in PDF, Priority 1.
> 4.- Print Workflow in PDF, Priority 1.
> 5.- I have a question: how do replace the easy way you pass with @Tab@key without loss layout in web?, this is important too!
> 6.- ShortCuts, Priority 1.
> 7.- MultiTabs. PLEASE dont ask me develop by myself, i have already this
> in GTK and is your desition take off.
> 8.- Test the posibility of use ALL the web client without mouse. When it
> should be possible, you will think IT IS READY!, after impossible, think in
> people loading thousand of records per day, not just in new ones that will
> learn quickly.
> 9.- If you decide just not mantain, create yourselve the fork and put a
> copy with openerp-gtk-drivers permisions to make it official, give us the
> power, but i think it is a bad move.
>
> PUT HERE ALL THINGS YOU USE IN GTK THAT ARE NOT POSSIBLE ON WEB.
>
>
> Conclusion: If desition is taken, I support all what OpenERP SA propose,
> but im not agreed at all, and we think we must prepare an strategy
> correctly, with the support of OpenERP SA, i dont like Forks, they divide
> Community and make us weak.
>
> Regards.
>
> 2012/10/12 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> > I am afraid that dropping the official support for the GTK client means
>> > that the RPC/webservice API will degenerate and the main development
>> > will diverge.
>>
>> Of course, we will keep maintaining the RPC/Web-service. It's very
>> important as OpenERP is often integrated with third party applications.
>> It's a very good feature of OpenERP.
>>
>> We are also improving the protocol to support others authentification
>> methods than the plain text login/password. v7.0 will support different
>> authentification mechanisms: oauth, openid, ldap, login/password.
>>
>> We redesigned completly the login/sign up process so that you can create
>> users without having to assign them a password.
>>
>> > Even if we got a "fork" of the GTK-client there are no commitment from
>> > OpenERP SA that it will be possible to maintain such thing.
>> > Its too tempting to use bells and whistles from web and bypass API and
>> > create a mess.
>>
>> If we want to refocus our efforts on the web, it's not for the "bells
>> and whistles" as some pretend it is. For v7.0, less than 5% of our
>> developers worked on the new design. Most of our efforts where on making
>> everything robust.
>>
>> The advantages of the web client:
>>   - modularity
>>   - allows to easily develop features that can be very complex in GTK:
>>     touchscreen point of sale, new reconciliation facilities, advanced
>>     widgets like many2many_tags, kanban, good integration of external
>>     libs (geo-engine of camptocamp, linkedin integration, oauth, ...)
>>   - it will allow to go mobile.
>>
>>
>> > Please don't waste that unique position OpenERP has today.
>>
>> v7.0 will allow an even better unique position: ERP accessible to
>> everyone. You will see that the demand on OpenERP will explode and that
>> your implementation effort will be reduced a lot.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fabien Pinckaers
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> --------------------
> Saludos Cordiales
>
> Nhomar G. Hernandez M.
> +58-414-4110269
> Skype: nhomar00
> Web-Blog: http://geronimo.com.ve
> Servicios IT: http://vauxoo.com
> Linux-Counter: 467724
> Correos:
> nhomar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> nhomar@xxxxxxxxxx
> twitter @nhomar
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Atte:
Carlos A. Guerrero M.
http://www.carlosguerrero.com