torios team mailing list archive

[Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks Samuel for the links and your focus on the crucial point :-)

I think we have to think about what to do:

1. Business as usual - if we think Canonical will never consider ToriOS
to be a threat or a nuisance, and just won't bother. After all, ToriOS
focuses on very old hardware, which is completely abandoned by standard
Ubuntu and more or less abandoned also by the other official Ubuntu
flavours. There might be some overlap with Lubuntu.

2. When we have a release candidate, ask Canonical for approval - but
what if we get no reply or a negative reply? How can we assess the risk
in this case compared to that of 'business as usual'?

3. Switch and base ToriOS on Debian - if we think it would mean a big
step backward, maybe a one year delay, or we might never get it as user
friendly for some applied tasks.

*. I think we should try to find out which alternative is chosen by some
other small re-spins and big distros based on Ubuntu, for example

- Bento
- Bodhi
- Linux Mint
- LXLE

Best regards
Nio

Den 2016-01-07 kl. 19:34, skrev Samuel Klein:
> Hi Nio,
>  
> You can read Matthew Garret's blog about the issue here:
> https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/35969.html
>  
> "Any redistribution of modified versions of Ubuntu must be approved,
> certified or provided by Canonical if you are going to associate it with
> the Trademarks. Otherwise you must remove and replace the Trademarks and
> will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries."
>  
> Mark Shuttleworth explains here: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/37113.html
>  
> sk
>  
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2016 at 1:12 AM
> *From:* "Nio Wiklund" <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* "Samuel Klein" <srukle@xxxxxxx>
> *Cc:* Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>, torios@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: [Torios] The History of ToriOS Websites
> Hi Samuel,
> 
> This sounds like a very serious problem. Please describe with more
> details in which way you think ToriOS breaks Ubuntu's IP!
> 
> -o-
> 
> Ubuntu allows people to create re-spins, but under certain conditions.
> See this link
> 
> http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy
> 
> Best regards
> Nio
> 
> Den 2016-01-07 kl. 06:21, skrev Samuel Klein:
>> Nio -- please realize that at the current stage, ToriOS breaks Ubuntu's
>> IP. And if it's discovered, there may be problems down the line. I'm
>> unsure what sort of problems, but we should consider switching to Debian
>> instead.
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 06, 2016 at 4:43 PM
>> *From:* "Nio Wiklund" <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *To:* Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *Cc:* torios@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* Re: [Torios] The History of ToriOS Websites
>> Den 2016-01-06 kl. 23:06, skrev Israel:
>>> On 01/06/2016 02:28 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
>>>> ..
>>> I agree with Nio's assesment.
>>>
>>> We should all try to be very clear with each other, it is often hard to
>>> fully express ourselves via faceless text. :)
>>>> @ all other toriosadores, ToriOS needs input from more people in this
>>>> discussion in order to find a solution that is good enough. Please
>>>> tell us what *you* think :-) Best regards Nio
>>> Hey all,
>>> I am willing to contribute financially as well, I currently do not have
>>> much to add but I think between Nio and I we could split the yearly
>>> cost, until we received more support or others chime in.
>>>
>>> I have been extremely busy recently, and have not had the time to do
>>> much. I have been working on rebasing for trusty, the main issue I face
>>> there is the increased size of the dependencies. Many things now
>>> require things we do not use/want/need, such as NetworkManager. This
>>> requires a lot more dependencies (initial systemd stuff that was
>>> introduced in 14.04) It will take a while to get a decent sized CD out
>>> of this, as OBI requires a tarball... perhaps we could offer a separate
>>> solution where we have a CD image that requires a separate download of
>>> the tarball... though I will continue to look through things and see
>>> where I can cut corners (in size not quality of course).
>>> The best I have gotten so far is around 800MiB This is too much for a
>>> CD, and does not include Seamonkey in any form (live or installed). I
>>> might be able to shirnk it more (removing things like synaptic?
>>> possibly using my battery monitor (very small gtk program) instead of
>>> the XFCE power manager)
>>> I still need to test things more but the space issue is the largest. We
>>> fixed nearly everything with OBI in our previous testing and have made
>>> it much more robust.
>>> I do wish there was a smaller network manager that did not require all
>>> the gnome stuff, and worked as well (including native icon theme
>>> support), but I haven't found one yet.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Israel,
>>
>> I'm glad to share whatever costs are necessary for ToriOS with you :-)
>>
>> -o-
>>
>> Please check carefully if systemd really appears with the Trusty kernel,
>> the 3.13 series, that you get when you start from 14.04 LTS and 14.04.1
>> LTS. If not, it might be possible to lock booting via init (the old way
>> instead of systemd). I think Lubuntu works well with systemd, but it
>> probably makes things bigger. Julien Lavergne has to strip a lot from
>> the alternate iso files in order to keep them within CD size in Xenial.
>> Lubuntu has given up CD size for the desktop iso files (they are way
>> above 700 Mibibytes nowadays (in Xenial)).
>>
>> 14.04.2 gives you the utopic kernel and 14.04.3 the vivid kernel, and
>> soon we will get 14.04.4 with the wily kernel. Finally 14.04.5 LTS will
>> give us the Xenial kernel.
>>
>> -o-
>>
>> It might be tricky to get a working mini.iso file with the version 14.04
>> or 14.04.1 and the Trusty kernel. Please try via this link (and tell me
>> if you still can't find such a mini.iso to start from).
>>
>> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/
>>
>> An alternative might be to start from an Ubuntu Server iso file with the
>> Trusty kernel (but not install any server package).
>>
>> Best regards
>> Nio
>>
>>
>>
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