torios team mailing list archive

[Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi again,

I think Israel is already using git-hub.

There are scripts to build ToriOS from the Ubuntu mini.iso. So an
alternative might be to supply that method (instead of supplying an iso
file). This would be a method, that should be free from conflicts with
Ubuntu's intellectual property (or at least rather easy to make free).

Best regards
Nio

Den 2016-01-07 kl. 20:50, skrev Samuel Klein:
> Nio,
>  
> Good thoughts and questions.
>  
> It might be advantageous to ask in advance; however, this might slow our
> development process (and it's already slow since Israel is essentially
> the lead programmer and only person looking at the source right now).
>  
> First I think it would be best if we first audit the code for Ubuntu
> source. If it becomes difficult removing all of Ubuntu's source, we
> should consider A) ask Ubuntu for permission, or B) use Debian.
>  
> I think we should consider re-organizing the source code. Israel should
> let us know what is the most current source, and we should keep all
> related OS work to whatever repository it is posted to. It might be good
> to take advantage of Git's powerful version control features and use Git
> rather than Launchpad for the development work. This would also reduce
> the inner-circle effect that has burned out our lead developers and
> project management by following the social contract of Debian.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Free_Software_Guidelines
>  
> https://github.com/Tori-OS
>  
> We can store the source for ToriOS here, where all members can audit the
> code and flag bugs. This gives transparency to the development process
> and allows more people to contribute fixes.
>  
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2016 at 1:38 PM
> *From:* "Nio Wiklund" <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* "Samuel Klein" <srukle@xxxxxxx>, Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Cc:* torios@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject:* Re: Ubuntu's IP
> Thanks Samuel for the links and your focus on the crucial point :-)
> 
> I think we have to think about what to do:
> 
> 1. Business as usual - if we think Canonical will never consider ToriOS
> to be a threat or a nuisance, and just won't bother. After all, ToriOS
> focuses on very old hardware, which is completely abandoned by standard
> Ubuntu and more or less abandoned also by the other official Ubuntu
> flavours. There might be some overlap with Lubuntu.
> 
> 2. When we have a release candidate, ask Canonical for approval - but
> what if we get no reply or a negative reply? How can we assess the risk
> in this case compared to that of 'business as usual'?
> 
> 3. Switch and base ToriOS on Debian - if we think it would mean a big
> step backward, maybe a one year delay, or we might never get it as user
> friendly for some applied tasks.
> 
> *. I think we should try to find out which alternative is chosen by some
> other small re-spins and big distros based on Ubuntu, for example
> 
> - Bento
> - Bodhi
> - Linux Mint
> - LXLE
> 
> Best regards
> Nio
> 
> Den 2016-01-07 kl. 19:34, skrev Samuel Klein:
>> Hi Nio,
>>
>> You can read Matthew Garret's blog about the issue here:
>> https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/35969.html
>>
>> "Any redistribution of modified versions of Ubuntu must be approved,
>> certified or provided by Canonical if you are going to associate it with
>> the Trademarks. Otherwise you must remove and replace the Trademarks and
>> will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries."
>>
>> Mark Shuttleworth explains here: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/37113.html
>>
>> sk
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 07, 2016 at 1:12 AM
>> *From:* "Nio Wiklund" <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *To:* "Samuel Klein" <srukle@xxxxxxx>
>> *Cc:* Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>, torios@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Subject:* Re: [Torios] The History of ToriOS Websites
>> Hi Samuel,
>>
>> This sounds like a very serious problem. Please describe with more
>> details in which way you think ToriOS breaks Ubuntu's IP!
>>
>> -o-
>>
>> Ubuntu allows people to create re-spins, but under certain conditions.
>> See this link
>>
>>
> http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy
>>
>> Best regards
>> Nio
>>
>> Den 2016-01-07 kl. 06:21, skrev Samuel Klein:
>>> Nio -- please realize that at the current stage, ToriOS breaks Ubuntu's
>>> IP. And if it's discovered, there may be problems down the line. I'm
>>> unsure what sort of problems, but we should consider switching to Debian
>>> instead.
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 06, 2016 at 4:43 PM
>>> *From:* "Nio Wiklund" <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> *To:* Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Cc:* torios@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Torios] The History of ToriOS Websites
>>> Den 2016-01-06 kl. 23:06, skrev Israel:
>>>> On 01/06/2016 02:28 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
>>>>> ..
>>>> I agree with Nio's assesment.
>>>>
>>>> We should all try to be very clear with each other, it is often hard to
>>>> fully express ourselves via faceless text. :)
>>>>> @ all other toriosadores, ToriOS needs input from more people in this
>>>>> discussion in order to find a solution that is good enough. Please
>>>>> tell us what *you* think :-) Best regards Nio
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I am willing to contribute financially as well, I currently do not have
>>>> much to add but I think between Nio and I we could split the yearly
>>>> cost, until we received more support or others chime in.
>>>>
>>>> I have been extremely busy recently, and have not had the time to do
>>>> much. I have been working on rebasing for trusty, the main issue I face
>>>> there is the increased size of the dependencies. Many things now
>>>> require things we do not use/want/need, such as NetworkManager. This
>>>> requires a lot more dependencies (initial systemd stuff that was
>>>> introduced in 14.04) It will take a while to get a decent sized CD out
>>>> of this, as OBI requires a tarball... perhaps we could offer a separate
>>>> solution where we have a CD image that requires a separate download of
>>>> the tarball... though I will continue to look through things and see
>>>> where I can cut corners (in size not quality of course).
>>>> The best I have gotten so far is around 800MiB This is too much for a
>>>> CD, and does not include Seamonkey in any form (live or installed). I
>>>> might be able to shirnk it more (removing things like synaptic?
>>>> possibly using my battery monitor (very small gtk program) instead of
>>>> the XFCE power manager)
>>>> I still need to test things more but the space issue is the largest. We
>>>> fixed nearly everything with OBI in our previous testing and have made
>>>> it much more robust.
>>>> I do wish there was a smaller network manager that did not require all
>>>> the gnome stuff, and worked as well (including native icon theme
>>>> support), but I haven't found one yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Israel,
>>>
>>> I'm glad to share whatever costs are necessary for ToriOS with you :-)
>>>
>>> -o-
>>>
>>> Please check carefully if systemd really appears with the Trusty kernel,
>>> the 3.13 series, that you get when you start from 14.04 LTS and 14.04.1
>>> LTS. If not, it might be possible to lock booting via init (the old way
>>> instead of systemd). I think Lubuntu works well with systemd, but it
>>> probably makes things bigger. Julien Lavergne has to strip a lot from
>>> the alternate iso files in order to keep them within CD size in Xenial.
>>> Lubuntu has given up CD size for the desktop iso files (they are way
>>> above 700 Mibibytes nowadays (in Xenial)).
>>>
>>> 14.04.2 gives you the utopic kernel and 14.04.3 the vivid kernel, and
>>> soon we will get 14.04.4 with the wily kernel. Finally 14.04.5 LTS will
>>> give us the Xenial kernel.
>>>
>>> -o-
>>>
>>> It might be tricky to get a working mini.iso file with the version 14.04
>>> or 14.04.1 and the Trusty kernel. Please try via this link (and tell me
>>> if you still can't find such a mini.iso to start from).
>>>
>>> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/netboot/
>>>
>>> An alternative might be to start from an Ubuntu Server iso file with the
>>> Trusty kernel (but not install any server package).
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Nio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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