unity-design team mailing list archive

[Joost Verdoorn <jpverdoorn@xxxxxxxxx>]

I have to say, I'm with Ian and Ello here. The 24px vertical space is only *
wasted*, i.e. not usable by any application, when you are using
non-maximized windows, and using non-maximized windows basically means you
don't need those 24px anyway. Now, when you'd move the panel to the bottom,
that's wasting 24px of vertical space: an application's title bar uses 24px,
and the bottom panel uses 24px. Makes a total of 48px, 24px more than the
panel at the top.

If you're looking to free some space at the top, I think something like the
old Wingpanel is the best solution:
http://cdn.omgubuntu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/sipzz.jpg

Full article:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/wingpanel-elementarys-slick-new-space-saving-panel/

I think if all windows would have the titlebar like photoshop's, the
environment would be very cluttered and therefore cumbersome to use.

I made a quick mockup how the wingpanel would work in unity:
http://i.imgur.com/5lmbS.png


Joost

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:15 AM, ello <tenniswithshovels@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> But don't all designers take into account the title bar of the window?
> Don't all the features you talk about appear under it?  Since, when
> maximised, the panel is the title bar, I don't see how this is a
> concern.  Have I missed something?
>
> On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 01:00 +0200, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote:
> > 2011/5/25 Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > Even if we did open up the top edge as opposed to the bottom edge,
> > where is the guarantee that app developers would take advantage of
> > that and actually use it?
> >
> >
> >
> > The thing is that they already are. The majority of applications have
> > a top-down element priority design, e.g. browsers. Almost all browsers
> > today have their tabs on the very top of the application and why is
> > that? Since it's much more effective to switch between them when they
> > are so close to the screen edge and for me is tab-switching the most
> > used function of a browser except for actually reading the content of
> > a page.
> >
> >
> > Photoshop for example makes great use of the screen edges since the
> > menu is located at the top, the tools at the left, and the different
> > windows at the right. If all UI-elements were located below the canvas
> > the work flow would be severely crippled. The use of edges is really
> > important in design, both for usability and framing content.
> >
> >
> > Since the top-down priority is most often used it makes perfect sense
> > for the design choice that Windows have, the task bar located at the
> > bottom of the screen by default.
> >
> >
> > I hope that you now understand why we try to get rid of the top panel,
> > you may not agree but hopefully see our point.
> >
> > 2011/5/25 Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
> >         The point I'm trying to make is that the current panel isn't
> >         broken, and moving things like that is just change for the
> >         sake of change. When you're trying to build a set and solid
> >         identity, that;s not a good thing.
> >
> >         What really makes the bottom edge so ill-suited to placing
> >         interface elements? Is it really something that sets it apart
> >         from the top edge, or app developers wish not to place UI
> >         elements there?
> >
> >         Even if we did open up the top edge as opposed to the bottom
> >         edge, where is the guarantee that app developers would take
> >         advantage of that and actually use it? Web browsers, for
> >         example, seem to be following a tabs on top approach to
> >         design. This issue with this design is that unless the user
> >         has focus issues, switching tabs should not be the most
> >         important controls. And what exactly happens to the title bar
> >         if we put the panel on the bottom? Does it move to the bottom?
> >         That's quite a large change for very little additional
> >         functionality. Alternatively, we can leave the title bar on
> >         top, but then that defeats the point behind moving the panel
> >         to the bottom in the first place.
> >
> >         Even if we remove the panel, that last point holds true. We
> >         aren't opening up the top screen edge, only putting something
> >         else there. We may as well leave the panel there, as in it's
> >         current form it takes no additional space, and *does* provide
> >         functionality, unlike a title bar only or a tab bar.
> >
> >         I haven't seen honeycomb yet. Some guy was hogging the Xoom at
> >         the Sprint store I visited on Sunday.
> >
> >         On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 15:29, Ed Lin <edlin280@xxxxxxxxx>
> >         wrote:
> >                 On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Ian Santopietro
> >                 <isantop@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >                 > Why can't we let the top panel stay and hold the
> >                 indicators?
> >                 >
> >                 > 1. Panels/notification bars are used in *every*
> >                 major OS (Windows's is odd
> >                 > at the bottom), from desktops like Ubuntu and OS X
> >                 to mobile platforms like
> >                 > Android and iOS. It's a very familiar paradigm that
> >                 people are comfortable
> >                 > working with.
> >                 >
> >                 > 2. The panel can hold lots of functionality (Title
> >                 bar, notifications, BFB,
> >                 > Menu) at a low cost to screen real-estate (~24px, I
> >                 think)
> >                 >
> >                 > 3. Removing it requires integrating the indicators
> >                 with the launcher, which
> >                 > is not what either of them were designed for.
> >                 >
> >
> >
> >                 1.)
> >                 Why "odd"? it makes much more sense to put less
> >                 frequently *clicked*
> >                 elements to the bottom than to the top! (btw, have you
> >                 seen
> >                 honeycomb?)
> >
> >                 Familiarity isn't a good argument because a panel on a
> >                 screen edge
> >                 with a clock and some familiar icons is as familiar on
> >                 the side as a
> >                 panel at the top or bottom. This isn't a question of
> >                 "paradigms", just
> >                 design.
> >
> >                 Having said that, I really wouldn't mind a Unity
> >                 bottom panel that
> >                 consists of the launcher items and the classic
> >                 indicators. In fact I'd
> >                 most likely prefer it to any other alternative I've
> >                 heard so far,
> >                 including the two mock-ups of my own or to what's
> >                 currently available.
> >                 Probably not a too popular opinion as everyone would
> >                 point at it and
> >                 say "Windows 7 clone". This brings us to:
> >
> >                 2.
> >                 It's not about the 24 px, it's about screen edges.
> >
> >                 Unity takes up two whole screen edges, it only leaves
> >                 the remaining
> >                 two to app developers. The right side is usually
> >                 already occupied by a
> >                 scroll bar and the lower edge isn't very attractive
> >                 for putting
> >                 controls there apart from image viewers and video
> >                 players. The top
> >                 screen edge is the most valuable space and it should
> >                 therefore house
> >                 the most important controls. Sorry Unity/Ubuntu, that
> >                 means NOT you ;)
> >
> >                 3.)
> >                 So? GNOME wasn't designed for a global menu, our
> >                 western fonts weren't
> >                 designed for vertical interfaces...
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         --
> >         Ian Santopietro
> >
> >         Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> >         See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> >         "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
> >          Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
> >
> >         Pa gur yv y porthaur?
> >
> >
> >         Public GPG key
> >         (RSA):
> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
> >
> >
> >
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