unity-design team mailing list archive

[Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 17:01, Omar B. <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> @Adrian
>
> I think the issues you and other people are experiencing could be sum up in
> a few bugs that need reporting:
>
> 1- Filters: show them by default; proposal by Jo-Erlend :
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08031.html
>
> 2- An easier default view when showing/scrolling all apps: Alan Bell:
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08005.html
>
> 3- Zoom in / out: (already submitted bug);
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg08027.html
>
> 4- Apps available for download: These suggestions are useful for *searches*
> or after clicking on specific filters/categories, but not when showing all
> (as it becomes too random). It should always show most relevant first and a
> link to "get more apps" could also be shown.

4 - Apps available for download :   add an option to hide them completely .
Or ,  at least use a smaller icons size for them .

> 5- Recent apps: This is now in the home lens too, so is kind of duplicating.
> It could be kept in the apps lens, but it could be *fully collapsible*
> (instead of 1 row semi-expanded) to hide it fully if the user doesn't want
> it.

> This could become some sort of multi-bug report or is better to keep them
> separate ?

Probably it's better as separate issues .


>> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:01:07 +0200
>> From: syraxes@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx
>> CC: unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status of
>> Unity
>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 13:17, pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > Dear Adrian,
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> Wow ,  that's a shocking suggestion :  in order to see what's
>> >> available I need to start an application.
>> >> And this is supposed to be a progress compared to the old-style
>> >> desktop environments that can display a quick list of categories
>> >> without external software.
>> >
>> > The Dash is part of Unity just like the "Application menu" is part of
>> > Gnome 2.
>>
>> > From the user point of view there isn't a new application to open.
>>
>> What do you mean by that ?
>>
>>
>> >> I'd really like to understand the rationale against the idea of having
>> >> some sort of applications browser that is usable like an old-style
>> >> Applications menu    :    see a list of categories and be able to see
>> >> the contents of a category WITHOUT clicking on anything.
>> >>
>> >
>> > You still have an application browser, the only difference, as you
>> > said, is that you need to click on the categories, instead of just
>> > moving the mouse.
>>
>> It's more than that : it's also a problem with how the results are
>> displayed.
>>
>> After clicking on a category it shows only one row of applications .
>> In order to see all of them i have to click on "see more N results" .
>>
>> This gives me a constant feeling that "probably there are more things
>> in there that i don't know about " .
>>
>> The "Apps available for Download" are eating much too space. And as
>> a result the user is forced to "See more results" after every filter
>> search .
>>
>>
>>
>> >> Please believe me that in gnome2 or xfce   I use the apps menu a lot .
>> >>  It's easy enough so that i rarely feel the need to create shortcuts
>> >> on a panel.   Every application has it's own well defined place inside
>> >> the menu.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Here is the key for your discomfort. You are used to open your
>> > applications using the menu and did not like the idea of typing the
>> > name (or description) in the Dash. One of the main characteristics of
>> > the Dash, IMHO, is that the best way to find an application using it
>> > is by typing Super+"name or description of the application" instead of
>> > using the mouse until pointing the right place. You should give it a
>> > try, it is much faster than using a mouse and you'll get much faster
>> > after one of two days. If you insist on using only the mouse, than the
>> > Dash is certainly not a good choice for you.
>>
>> The source of discomfort is that navigating around applications
>> categories is clunky .
>>
>> Let's imagine that the user clicks on a category (even though in a
>> classic apps menu it's enough to hover) .
>>
>> After clicking i don't immediately see the entire list of application
>> is that category !
>> The screen is cluttered with: recent results , "see more N results"
>> , and "apps available to download" .
>> This is like a click-click puzzle game with colourful icons , not
>> efficient browsing .
>>
>>
>> The first version of the Unity (the netbook remix 10.10 if i
>> remember correctly) used to present the applications in a nicer way
>> : there was a big list with all the applications divided into
>> categories . It required some scrolling , but was better than what
>> i see now in 12.04. At least I could quickly form an idea about what
>> application are installed !
>>
>>
>> >> Hmm...   perhaps this is what irritates me about searching/filtering
>> >> in the Dash :   when using these filters there is too much visual
>> >> noise (huge icons ,   see more 666 results  ,  apps available for
>> >> download )    and a particular application will never appear in the
>> >> same place on the screen .
>> >> The visual clutter gives me a constant feeling that I never know
>> >> what's available for use .
>> >
>> > But 99% of the time you know exactly what you want to open. You know
>> > you want to open firefox, or thunderbird (or e-mail application), or
>> > Writter, or emacs. Just time its name, it is fast and usually you'll
>> > get a single option after 3 or for letters.
>>
>> When installing a new version of an operating system, it's
>> interesting to look around and see what new applications are available
>> by default .
>>
>> The Dash doesn't offer a comfortable solution for discovering
>> (browsing) what's available .
>> It's a fancy-looking search that requires 3D graphic acceleration ,
>> nothing more .
>>
>>
>> Oh, and by the way : when filtering for "All" applications ,
>> the results don't display the categories anymore .
>>
>>
>> > Where I think the Dash fails is for people that can't really type. I
>> > have two children, one is 5 and the other one is 8. The one with 5
>> > learned to recognize the word "Game" from the old Gnome 2 menu and
>> > then to click on it (or hover ) to see the list of games. Now with the
>> > Dash he needs first to click on "Filter" (and this does not seem
>> > natural all for him). It would be nice to be able to have the list of
>> > categories always open as an option.
>> >
>> > best,
>> >
>> > Paulo
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>> Now, neither piece may yet be ideal, but we should improve the design
>> >>> of
>> >>> those pieces for their specific purposes, not try to make everything
>> >>> do
>> >>> everything.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mark
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 22/02/12 15:29, Adrian Maier wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 17:19, nick rundy<nrundy@xxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The problem is having to "expand" options, like the "See more
>> >>>>> results"
>> >>>>> option. Too much stuff is being crammed into the dash.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For example, on the Applications Lens, users should be able to use
>> >>>>> setting
>> >>>>> to configure it so that it ONLY shows the applications installed on
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> machine. And by default shows ALL results. This way the user doesn't
>> >>>>> have
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> click so many things to get an expanded view of Applications. Also
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> filters should not have to be expanded (which I believe is the case
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> 12.04)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> @Adrian:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> if the Applications Lens defaults to show all stuff by default, then
>> >>>>> Unity
>> >>>>> is just as convenient as old-GNOME.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1. tap SUPER+A
>> >>>>> 2. click GAMES
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That sounds like  just a workaround for solving a problem that didn't
>> >>>> exist before changing  something that used to work well enough  ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If there is a big list with all the applications ,   it implies
>> >>>> scrolling in order to find the category and then  finding the
>> >>>> application.  Too much visual noise for getting done a simple thing.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I really mean that the right solution is to have a real classic menu
>> >>>> /
>> >>>> list view .
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:39:36 +0200
>> >>>>>> From: syraxes@xxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> To: unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status
>> >>>>>> of
>> >>>>>> Unity
>> >>>>>> Hello people,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Today I've been curious to see what is the current status of Unity
>> >>>>>> compared to the version shipped last year with 11.04.
>> >>>>>> So i've installed the Ubuntu daily beta 12.04 in a virtual machine
>> >>>>>> .
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The main thing I would like to comment about is : navigation around
>> >>>>>> the available applications .
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I have chosen a simple task : " let's see what games are installed
>> >>>>>> " . Steps :
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
>> >>>>>> - looking for the word "categories" on screen. Couldn't find it.
>> >>>>>> Finally figured out that "Filter results" might help with my task
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on Filter Results
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on Games
>> >>>>>> - it displays : Aislerot Solitaire , Freecell Solitaire , Mahjongg
>> >>>>>> ,
>> >>>>>> Mines
>> >>>>>> - hmm. Are there just 4 games installed ? apparently not - there
>> >>>>>> is a link "See 1 more result"
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on "see 1 more result".
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The next task "now let's see what development software is
>> >>>>>> installed" .
>> >>>>>> Steps :
>> >>>>>> - the screen is still showing the previous screen with the games .
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on Developer in "filter results"
>> >>>>>> - nothing changes in the search results !
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on Games , to deselect
>> >>>>>> - the Developer software finally
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Result : after 6 clicks I have been able to see what games and what
>> >>>>>> development tools are installed by default in 12.04 beta .
>> >>>>>> Too big icons , on a normal display there will always be necessary
>> >>>>>> to click on "see more N results".
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Now let's see the steps needed to do the same tasks in Ubuntu 10.04
>> >>>>>> ,
>> >>>>>> gnome 2 :
>> >>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
>> >>>>>> - move the mouse over "Games" . Read the list of applications.
>> >>>>>> - move the mouse over "Programming" . Read the list of
>> >>>>>> applications.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sorry for ranting , but killing productivity for visual cuteness is
>> >>>>>> not progress ...
>> >>>>>> It should be possible to have a classical menu with applications
>> >>>>>> categories (maybe on right-click on the desktop).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My personal conclusion : the current Unity is just as disappointing
>> >>>>>> as last year.
>> >>>>>> Starting an application multiple times seems to be handled ok now
>> >>>>>> (useful particularly for terminals).
>> >>>>>> But there is still zero configurability (in settings ->  appearance
>> >>>>>> the user can only change the wallpaper and autohide the launcher .
>> >>>>>> Quite hilarious in a sad way ) .
>> >>>>>> No possibility to disable the global menu .
>> >>>>>> My main showstopper : no classic applications menu.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>>> Adrian
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> >>>>>> Post to : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> >>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Adrian M
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> >> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paulo José da Silva e Silva
>> > Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
>> > (Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
>> > Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil
>> >
>> > e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web: http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian M
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> Post to : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp



-- 
Adrian M