unity-design team mailing list archive

[Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 20:58, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Directory based navigation is a bad concept for modern computing. Not even
> Windows is holding on to that in Windows 8. Users don't care about folders
> or files. They only want to interact with data.

Well,  in this case i have some bad old news for them : data is stored
in files.  And files are organized in directories.  If some users
prefer to put all of their files in a single directory (for example
"on the desktop")   this is nothing but a bad practice.


> The number of clicks in this case is completely irrelevant. If the user is
> in a hurry, they will know what they want and use search or a launcher
> shortcut. If they want to browse through the applications installed, then
> the number of clicks doesn't matter. They aren't in a hurry to get work
> done, and individual clicks aren't hard or time consuming in this scenario.

I don't agree, but whatever ...


> On Feb 25, 2012 10:37 AM, "Adrian Maier" <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 17:52, Jo-Erlend Schinstad
>> <joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > On 25. feb. 2012 16:38, Adrian Maier wrote:
>> >>
>> >> There is a possibility to browse by categories. I know that you know
>> >> this.
>> >> Perhaps you should explain why Windows' way of doing it is better?
>> >> Because they've found a way to add an improvement (search applications
>> >> by name)  without removing the traditional folder-based navigation of
>> >> "All Programs" .
>> >
>> > Yes, but you're still not explaining why that would be better.
>>
>> I don't think it's possible to convince you about that.
>>
>> >> It isn't missing. It works a little bit different than what you're used
>> >> to,
>> >> but it does exist.
>> >> Michael Hall was saying that the Dash is designed for searching , not
>> >> for browsing the applications.   This explains why it's not the
>> >> feature that i was looking for.
>> >>
>> >> But you are the one who told me that in order to get a classic-looking
>> >> apps menu  it's possible to load the gnome panel   !
>> >>
>> >> Therefore  :   in Unity itself there is no component designed/intended
>> >> to act as a category-based browser .
>> >
>> > We have that. Just used filters. The preferred way of launching stuff is
>> > not
>> > to browse for them, but to quickly launch them using either the list of
>> > frequent applications or to search. But browsing by category is
>> > certainly
>> > possible.
>>
>> It's possible , but not comfortable .  Using the filters requires too
>> much clicking  (see below) .
>>
>>
>> >>>> The first step would be to see that the need for such a feature is at
>> >>>> least acknowledged.
>> >>>
>> >>> Then you have to be more convincing. So far, you've claimed that it is
>> >>> required, but I don't think you've explained why.  To me, it sounds as
>> >>> if
>> >>> you
>> >>> want to change the behavior because you're not used to it.
>> >>
>> >> Please enlighten me :  from your point of view the feature is already
>> >> there ,  or you want me to demonstrate why should it be introduced ?
>> >
>> > You open the applications lens and then choose the category you want. I
>> > don't really understand the problem, which is why I keep asking you for
>> > an
>> > explanation. But you don't provide any.
>>
>>
>> The problem is the high number of clicks needed to have the job done :
>> -  click on dash ,
>> -  click on "search applications" ,
>> -  click on "Filters"  ,
>> -  click on "Local Apps" ,
>> -  click on "Games" ,
>> -  click on "see more results"
>> After doing all those clicks I am finally getting the complete list of
>> Games.  Clicking 6 times for seeing all the installed Games is way too
>> much.
>>
>> If I want to move to another category it's necessary to click 2 times :
>> - click on  "Games"  to unselect it
>> - click on  "Internet"
>>
>> Therefore I tend to agree with the people who mentioned that the Dash
>> is designed for search , not for apps navigation in directory-style .
>> Navigation inside the Dash could be improved a bit if the changes
>> mentioned by Omar were implemented.
>>
>>
>>
>> By the way :    i have also tried it "the Unity way " .
>> - press Super  , to open the dash
>> - type "games"
>> - it shows me only "Aisleriot Solitaire "
>>
>> - if i type "game"
>> - it shows me 2 games :  "Aisleriot Solitaire " and "Freecell Solitaire"
>>
>> Actually there are 2 more games installed : Mahjongg and Minesweeper.
>> Not impressed at all about these search results.  Hopefully this is
>> just a bug in the 12.04 beta .
>>
>>
>> >> The feature needs to exist before discussing whether it should be the
>> >> default  or not .
>> >>
>> >> But anyway I am not asking any changes of the defaults.
>> >>
>> > It isn't obvious what "the feature" means. This is the Unity Design
>> > list,
>> > though. It's perfectly possible to make all kinds of different
>> > third-party
>> > programs, but that doesn't really belong on this list, I think.
>>
>> "the feature" =  navigate applications in a directory-style  in an
>> easy, comfortable  way .
>>
>> By easy I mean :  no unnecessary clicks,    and possibility to go from
>> one category to another   with at most 1 click  (preferably 0 clicks :
>> mouse hover) .
>>
>> It can be a classic apps menu ,    or can be an improved Dash ,   or
>> can be some new fancy-looking categories browser that allows easy
>> navigation .
>>
>>
>> This discussion belongs here,  because in principle a designer might
>> be curious to hear about specific aspects that makes some user(s)
>> unhappy .
>>
>>
>> >> Especially now after trying the
>> >> https://launchpad.net/classicmenu-indicator .  It provides me what I
>> >> was missing , and it's not even necessary to use the gnome panel.
>> >> Hopefully this package will be available in the real repositories
>> >> someday    (now it's in ppa).
>> >
>> > I personally think that's not the right place for it, since it doesn't
>> > indicate anything.
>>
>> It indicates that I no longer intend to spend too much energy with
>> discussing on this topic .
>>
>> >From my point of view the issue is solved :   now I am aware about
>> several possibilities that will allow me to happily use Unity without
>> cursing every 5 minutes .
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Adrian M
>>
>> --
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-- 
Adrian M