whube-core team mailing list archive

[Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Let's do that.

Darkwing: can you document this in a series of blueprints on LP until its
stable? Target to EE release

Keep rocken,
Tag

On Sep 12, 2010 6:53 PM, "matthew byers" <faintstlsaint@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Im game for that idea!
>
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Thomas Plastino Martin <
> thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> As Matthew was saying, I think that instead of using a PMS, and instead
of
>> using an install of Whube on whube.com, we could create it as a small
>> informational/general use site for the front end, with a 'hub' when you
log
>> in as a team member. Inside the team area would have an 'at a glance'
>> update list that pulls update information from Github, Launchpad,
>> bugs.whube, etc. From there we'd have a 'toolbox' with links to our
various
>> locations around the web. Perhaps we could use the API to push bugs from
>> this site to bugs.whube as well.
>>
>> This is by no means a solidified list. The whole point with my idea is
that
>> we should use the tools we have and create our own 'pms' like system
instead
>> of adding another layer of organization/workflow/team bureaucracy. We are
>> able bodied people and I think that we would do well to build ourself a
>> system that works for us instead of beating into submission someone
else's
>> project.
>>
>>
>> Thomas Plastino Martin
>> https://launchpad.net/~tenach <https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>> http://tenach.net
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@xxxxxxxxxx
>wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 10:12 AM, matthew byers <faintstlsaint@xxxxxxxxx
>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Paultag W00T!!
>>> > Well for the most part we have...
>>> > i vote for codendi Project Management System
>>> > tenach votes for turning whube.com into what we need in the form of a
>>> > customized pms catered to the needs of whube.
>>> > As myself, tenach and DW were discussing last night, we have the tools
>>> in
>>> > place right now to make the team effective but they arent being
>>> utilized.
>>> > From my eyes i was wanting a central hub where we all can
>>> work/communicate
>>> > and tenach wants the same but basically by using whube.com as our
'hub'
>>> that
>>> > holds on the links needed for whube. Tenach can better explain because
>>> it
>>> > sounds as if im jacking his idea all up so ill shut up here! LOL.
Simply
>>> put
>>> > i vote for a PMS...whether it be codendi or whube.com customized to
>>> what we
>>> > need from a pms viewpoint...we just need SOMETHING!! :P
>>> > DW is currently reviewing all aspects and planning out something for
the
>>> > team also! W00T!!
>>>
>>> Sick, awesome. Just tell me what I need to do after ya'll figure out
>>> where you want this to go
>>>
>>> -Tag
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:55 AM, Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> This is some good conversation right here.
>>> >>
>>> >> I agree, we are a mess. So, let's work this out.
>>> >>
>>> >> both tenach and stlsaint -- come up with a ( short ) gameplan ( each
)
>>> >> and we'll use those to make the decision on where to go. I think it's
>>> >> good to review all the choices we can.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Tag
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:49 AM, matthew byers <
>>> faintstlsaint@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > I fully agree with ya! Majority input takes precedence!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> > <thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> A project management system is just one way to go about it. If the
>>> >> >> majority of the team wanted to use one, I would be for it. It
>>> really
>>> >> >> comes
>>> >> >> down to what the team wants vs. what the individual wants.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >> https://launchpad.net/~tenach <https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >> http://tenach.net
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:16 PM, matthew byers
>>> >> >> <faintstlsaint@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Alright so if we are not going to go with idea of a pms than
>>> >> >>> we definitely need a "central" hub of location. As you said,
>>> mailing
>>> >> >>> list,
>>> >> >>> irc, lp, git, docs, all these have different uses and yet we
really
>>> >> >>> don't
>>> >> >>> interact as a team. Docs team wont talk to devs, etc etc. But
then
>>> >> >>> again we
>>> >> >>> do have irc so maybe that can be our communication but what if
>>> >> >>> decisions are
>>> >> >>> made there when someone isn't there?? Tenach brings up a valid
>>> point
>>> >> >>> of
>>> >> >>> turning whube.com into something more for our hub. I like the
idea
>>> of
>>> >> >>> customizing and developing whube.com to be our tools/info page.
>>> But i
>>> >> >>> will
>>> >> >>> say this for the last time is that in my mind, a pms is looking
>>> real
>>> >> >>> handy
>>> >> >>> right now but i have no shame in learning the best practices for
a
>>> >> >>> team.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>> <thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> According to Launchpad, we use it for 'Answers'
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>>> https://launchpad.net/~tenach <https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>> http://tenach.net
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:09 PM, Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>>> <thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> http://bugs.whube.com - our own bug tracking.
>>> >> >>>>> http://github.com/whube/whube - our source code versioning
>>> >> >>>>> http://launchpad.net/whube - blueprints, and some other stuff.
>>> I'm
>>> >> >>>>> confused about LP (for whube and in general).
>>> >> >>>>> http://docs.whube.com - A wiki for documentation and other
>>> >> >>>>> whube-related information
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> These are all that I know of besides my +1 version of Whube at
>>> >> >>>>> http://bugs.thescoundrels.org
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>>>> https://launchpad.net/~tenach <https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>>> http://tenach.net
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 8:01 PM, David Wonderly
>>> >> >>>>> <david.wonderly@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> Ok, as I was saying I need the locations of all of the Status
>>> >> >>>>>> reports,
>>> >> >>>>>> TODO
>>> >> >>>>>> List, tasking etc we have littered throughout the place. If
you
>>> >> >>>>>> have a
>>> >> >>>>>> created
>>> >> >>>>>> anything regarding this please send it to me. :)
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> -DW
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> On Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:27:08 pm Thomas Plastino
>>> Martin
>>> >> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>> > I've never until today heard of Codendi (Codeni is
completely
>>> >> >>>>>> > different and
>>> >> >>>>>> > not related to project management). It looks interesting.
>>> >> >>>>>> >
>>> >> >>>>>> > We have docs.whube for wiki/documentaiton, we have launchpad
>>> for
>>> >> >>>>>> > blueprints
>>> >> >>>>>> > and other things, whube itself for bug tracking... I think
we
>>> >> >>>>>> > need
>>> >> >>>>>> > to use
>>> >> >>>>>> > what we have instead of looking for a larger project to use.
>>> >> >>>>>> > Between
>>> >> >>>>>> > those, IRC and this list, I think we can obtain any goals we
>>> set
>>> >> >>>>>> > for
>>> >> >>>>>> > ourselves. We just need to apply ourselves to more "doing",
>>> and
>>> >> >>>>>> > not
>>> >> >>>>>> > just
>>> >> >>>>>> > talking about doing.
>>> >> >>>>>> >
>>> >> >>>>>> > Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>>>>> > https://launchpad.net/~tenach<
https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach><
>>> https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>>>> > http://tenach.net
>>> >> >>>>>> >
>>> >> >>>>>> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 7:04 PM, matthew byers
>>> >> >>>>>> <faintstlsaint@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>> > > Alright so i would like to nominate: Codeni community
>>> version.
>>> >> >>>>>> > > It
>>> >> >>>>>> > > is full
>>> >> >>>>>> > > of modifiable features and is stable. I really like the
idea
>>> of
>>> >> >>>>>> > > a
>>> >> >>>>>> > > "all in
>>> >> >>>>>> > > one" type of system which is why i like the larger
>>> >> >>>>>> > > applications.
>>> >> >>>>>> > > But as i
>>> >> >>>>>> > > spoke with tenach who has more experience in this area
than
>>> i
>>> >> >>>>>> > > do
>>> >> >>>>>> > > he
>>> >> >>>>>> > > pointed out that maybe we dont need the large
applications.
>>> But
>>> >> >>>>>> > > i
>>> >> >>>>>> > > cant
>>> >> >>>>>> > > help but notice all the features the larger platforms
offer.
>>> I
>>> >> >>>>>> > > am
>>> >> >>>>>> > > a fan
>>> >> >>>>>> > > of the wiki/doc additions, plus the repository feature as
>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>> > > GIT
>>> >> >>>>>> > > module
>>> >> >>>>>> > > is added to the new release of codeni. I have attached the
>>> >> >>>>>> > > brochure
>>> >> >>>>>> > > explaining more on this option. Either way i feel we need
>>> >> >>>>>> > > something. Be
>>> >> >>>>>> > > it collabtiv or codeni or whatever. Whube needs some
>>> >> >>>>>> > > organization!!!
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Thomas Plastino Martin <
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > > thomas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> Ah, Redmine! I totally forgot about that Rails app. We
>>> were,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> for
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> about
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> four months, using Redmine as our main project management
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> system
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> in my
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> business. We had migrated over from Trac which was not
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> fitting
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> our
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> needs. While Redmine had some awesome features and it was
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> working
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> pretty well for us, it had a lot of excess built right
in.
>>> I
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> do
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> not
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> know exactly what was causing it, but either Redmine
and/or
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> Ruby
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> on
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> Rails was not working as it should, and I often found
>>> myself
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> having to
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> fix Redmine so we could continue to log in and use it.
>>> After
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> four
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> months we migrated to Collabtiv, which was much smaller
in
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> terms
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> of
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> built in features, but suited us a little better. We used
>>> that
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> up
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> until
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> we split, and now I don't really use any yet.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> If we were to go this route, I'd vote for Collabtiv
unless
>>> we
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> find
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> something better.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> https://launchpad.net/~tenach<
https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> <https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> http://tenach.net
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:47 PM, matthew byers
>>> >> >>>>>> <faintstlsaint@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> This issue occured to me today as i was going through
some
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> whube
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> pages
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> in my bookmarks and realized i had over 6 seperate pages
>>> of
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> whube
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> stuff trying to juggle. Thus the idea of project
>>> management
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> came
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> up
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> and tenach felt the same way i did. Though i dont speak
>>> for
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> everyone i
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> feel as if those who are not direct devs of whube are
not
>>> in
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> the
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> loop
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> as to the "status" of whube. And i really dont know when
>>> its
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> my
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> turn
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> as the wiki guy to jump in and turn out some docs. With
>>> some
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> sort of
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> project management system we all can be on one accord as
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> tenach
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> has
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> already described. Doing some research i came across
>>> redmine
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> and
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> though i have never used it it looks really feature
rich.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> http://www.redmine.org/
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> http://www.redmine.org/wiki/redmine/Features
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> With redmine we manage repos from git and other version
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> controls, setup
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> wiki/docs, track bugs and whube feature additions,
assign
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> teams/roles
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> and we do this all in one location as they get organized
>>> and
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> setup
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> then when they are all pretty and ready for the world we
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> migrate
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> them
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> to their appropriate web pages: ie: bugs.whube,
>>> docs.whube,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> etc.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> We
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> already have a project manager so he can head up the
>>> project
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> management system! Just my thoughts....
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Thomas Plastino Martin
<
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> tenach@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Hello everyone,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> We need to organize Whube in a serious manner. At
>>> present
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> we
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> do not
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> have a solid goal for the future past our list for DD.
>>> This
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> team is
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> growing and now we're in need of some sort of system in
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> place
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> where
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> we can all stay 'in the loop'. So far we have
>>> docs.whube,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> bugs.whube
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> and Launchpad. I think that we need to start actively
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> putting
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> our
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> team organization together, so that we all know who is
>>> doing
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> what,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> where we're going, etc.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> stlsaint suggested using a project management system
like
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Pier.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> I
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> have only really worked with Trac and Collabtiv, both
of
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> which
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> I am
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> not too fond of (I prefer Collabtiv over Trac any day
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> though).
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> I
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> think it might be a good idea, though I was under the
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> impression we
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> were going to use Launchpad for team stuff, such as
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> milestones/blueprints/whatnot. However, this confuses
>>> me.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Launchpad
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> is confusing too.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Anyway. What are we going to do?
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> * We need to have an outline for the future of Whube.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> * We should state clearly how we are going to use
>>> Launchpad,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> and use
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> it as such.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> * There is more, but I do not remember off the top of
my
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> head
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> at the
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> moment.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Whube has potential to be awesome, we just need to
>>> realize
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> path
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> and figure out exactly how we are going to go about it.
>>> I
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> think that
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> the days of freeform coding are (mostly) over, at least
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> until
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> we have
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> a solid understanding of everyone's contributions.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Hopefully I'm
>>> not
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> way
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> off
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> base with this.
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Thanks,
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Thomas Plastino Martin
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> https://launchpad.net/~tenach<
https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Etenach>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> http://tenach.net
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Mailing list:
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> > Post to : whube-core@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> Unsubscribe :
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> --
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> God Bless
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> Mailing list:
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> Post to : whube-core@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> Unsubscribe :
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> >> >>>>>> > >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > > --
>>> >> >>>>>> > > God Bless
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>>>>> > > Mailing list:
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > > https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> >> >>>>>> > > Post to : whube-core@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> >>>>>> > > Unsubscribe :
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > >
>>> >> >>>>>> > > https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> >> >>>>>> > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> --
>>> >> >>> God Bless
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > God Bless
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> >> > Post to : whube-core@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~whube-core<
https://launchpad.net/%7Ewhube-core>
>>> >> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> All programmers are playwrights, and all computers are lousy actors.
>>> >>
>>> >> #define sizeof(x) rand()
>>> >> :wq
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > God Bless
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> All programmers are playwrights, and all computers are lousy actors.
>>>
>>> #define sizeof(x) rand()
>>> :wq
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> God Bless