Re: [Ayatana] "Hybrid" (panel/launcher) top left corner button

2011/8/30 Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx>

Functionally? The current design works. Well, Gnome 2 just worked too,
right? So, why is there Unity, again? To make it "better", right? OK.
The problem is that there is no "unity" in Unity. The Launcher (and
the Dash) and the top panel are just too disparate. They look and work
like they don't belong with each other, as if someone just put them
together in haste. And, guess where this becomes abundantly clear: top
left corner where everything meets.
In 11.04, the Ubuntu button was on the top panel, and OK it did not
look like a button but still there was more "unity" in the design.
Now, with the Ubuntu button on the Launcher, the top panel and the
Launcher/Dash are completely separate entities and there is no
harmony. After 11.04, I was hoping for more integration and harmony
but the current design is absolutely a step backwards.
Not only that. The one thing that bothered me most with 11.04 was the
proximity of window control buttons (especially the close button) and
the Ubuntu button. Still, the Ubuntu button was at the very corner and
falsely hitting the close button when aiming the Ubuntu button was not
an issue, because you simply did not have to aim. All you had to do
was throw the cursor to the corner. Now, you actually have to aim the
Ubuntu button, so that you don't hit the window close button! How
nice! (Read: Are you kidding me?) I'm 100% certain, you'll receive
many user incidents where they close a maximized window when they
intended to hit the Ubuntu button. Another step back from 11.04
design. My proposal of moving the Ubuntu button to the bottom has some
problems but I think has some merit too:

https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg06309.html

Further, how about promoting the "Ubuntu" brand on its own desktop?
11.04: Ubuntu logo is there, where it belongs, the top left corner
("A" corner for God's sake). 11.10: Ubuntu logo hides with the
Launcher, acts like just another Launcher icon, somewhere around the
top left corner. Do you know of _any_ other modern desktop where a
corner is not occupied by the brand/logo of the OS/Distro/DE? I
honestly don't. My proposal that you dismissed takes care of that:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/unity-shell/+spec/top-left-corner
To sum, I think the current design is
1) Lacking "unity" in design and bringing together different functions
(refer to 3 below too),
2) Taking the power of desktop corner too lightly, and depriving the
Ubuntu logo and Dash from its accessibility and exposure,
3) Not only cramming irrelevant functions too close to each other,
doing it too dangerously to potentially cause unintended actions.

Regards,

Eylem

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I'm sorry, but I simply don't see a problem regarding the top left corner.
> I'm sorry if I sound daft, but can you point out the problem you're trying
> to solve?

>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 15:10, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Well, what can I say, I'm extremely surprised that "there is nothing
>> to be fixed" is your (or whoever's) conclusion and I respectfully
>> disagree. I guess I'll leave you with your content for now and be back
>> when you find what's wrong and are looking for new ideas...
>>
>> Eylem
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > I understand your proposal. I think the behavior is too complex. There
>> > are
>> > too many conditions regard when to show the launcher and when to show
>> > the
>> > window buttons that it's too confusing for many users. It also doesn't
>> > make
>> > the Ubuntu button any easier to access, since you still need to aim (for
>> > the
>> > launcher, since you can't touch the dash).
>> > My earlier point stands; the initial problems brought up when this
>> > thread
>> > was created are now solved, and there doesn't need to be a fix.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:17, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Ian,
>> >> There may be many if's to describe a use cases but it does not mean
>> >> the design is inconsistent, or complex to use. Please pay attention to
>> >> what I'm describing with those if's. They're only for the
>> >> implementation of the design, not for the user to memorize. There is
>> >> nothing to learn for the user, but the design has to be able
>> >> understand (infer) user intention from user action. That's why there
>> >> are those if's. It's easy to negate others' ideas but I think more
>> >> time should be spent on understanding them...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Ian Santopietro <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > No, I don't think it would. It may provide a workaround, but there
>> >> > are
>> >> > too
>> >> > many if's, which could be inconsistent if the user doesn't know
>> >> > exactly
>> >> > what
>> >> > they're doing. I think if the actions of the dash and launcher can't
>> >> > be
>> >> > explained in one paragraph, then it's too complex.
>> >> > The current iteration of Unity one of the major issues with the
>> >> > revised
>> >> > design: visual distinction from the rest of the launcher items. The
>> >> > other
>> >> > issue, isn't a problem because the super key can be used to invoke
>> >> > the
>> >> > dash
>> >> > instantly anyway.
>> >> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:46, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ian,
>> >> >> Do you think my proposal in the previous message could address those
>> >> >> issues?
>> >> >> I think it would but I'm no expert...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Eylem
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Ian Santopietro
>> >> >> <isantop@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Because the window controls should have gone in the corner, and
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > Usability testing did show that people were clicking on the top
>> >> >> > icon
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > launcher to try and open the dash.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:34, Eylem Koca <eylemkoca@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> OK, sorry, I got it wrong it seems. But then, why oh why did the
>> >> >> >> Ubuntu button have to leave the top left corner? If it did not
>> >> >> >> look
>> >> >> >> like a button, then make it like a button, not displace it. The
>> >> >> >> OP
>> >> >> >> includes a very good mockup for example:
>> >> >> >> http://sites.google.com/site/gandreoliva/hybridbutton
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I really really think that moving the Ubuntu button out of the
>> >> >> >> very-top-left-corner is a huge mistake.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> If you really have to place the window control buttons to the
>> >> >> >> very-top-left-corner, then I have a proposal. This just popped
>> >> >> >> into
>> >> >> >> my
>> >> >> >> mind, and goes like this:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> - Make the Launcher cover the whole left edge, going over the top
>> >> >> >> panel at the top left corner. The Ubuntu button (whatever the
>> >> >> >> design)
>> >> >> >> is at the top of the Launcher.
>> >> >> >> - When the cursor is not directed to the top panel, the Launcher
>> >> >> >> shows
>> >> >> >> or hides according to normal behavior (dodge, autohide, etc).
>> >> >> >> - If the Launcher is showing, the window controls on the left of
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> top panel are hidden, the active-app name (and title?) is
>> >> >> >> displayed
>> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> the top panel (starting from where the window controls would end)
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> the appmenu is hidden.
>> >> >> >> --- While the Launcher is showing, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE TOP
>> >> >> >> PANEL
>> >> >> >> BEFORE IT HITS THE LAUNCHER, then the Launcher hides, the window
>> >> >> >> controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the
>> >> >> >> user
>> >> >> >> can interact.
>> >> >> >> --- While the Launcher is showing, the user can activate Dash by
>> >> >> >> either clicking on the Ubuntu button or by pushing the cursor to
>> >> >> >> top
>> >> >> >> left corner (second part should be a user configurable option).
>> >> >> >> - If the Launcher is somehow hidden, and the cursor is NOT on the
>> >> >> >> top
>> >> >> >> panel, the window controls are replaced by an Ubuntu logo
>> >> >> >> (monochrome
>> >> >> >> ala 11.04), followed (towards right) by the active-app name (and
>> >> >> >> title?). Note: this Ubuntu logo is not clickable.
>> >> >> >> --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR FIRST HITS THE
>> >> >> >> TOP
>> >> >> >> PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LEFT EDGE, then the window controls and
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact.
>> >> >> >> --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE LEFT
>> >> >> >> EDGE
>> >> >> >> FIRST, the Ubuntu logo on top gracefully grows into a button of
>> >> >> >> its
>> >> >> >> own, while (at the same time) the Launcher fades and/or slides
>> >> >> >> into
>> >> >> >> view (very nice visual attractions can be achieved here). Once
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> Launcher is shown, the user can click anywhere outside, at which
>> >> >> >> instant, the Launcher and the Ubuntu button fade out of view kind
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> in a reverse visual effect.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> (If anyone can make a mockup of this, I'd really appreciate it)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I strongly suggest that Canonical and other decision makers
>> >> >> >> consider
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> design of this sorts, and not move the Ubuntu button completely
>> >> >> >> out
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> the very-top-corner. I'm certain a compromise (as above
>> >> >> >> suggestion)
>> >> >> >> that is clever ans usable can be achieved between window controls
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> Ubuntu button.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas
>> >> >> >> <mpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> >> >> >> > Hash: SHA1
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Eylem Koca wrote on 27/08/11 03:49:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The current design is justified by the motivation to move the
>> >> >> >> >> window
>> >> >> >> >> control buttons to the top left.
>> >> >> >> >> Apparently, the usability tests for 11.04 design showed that
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> window controls are better on the top left, so they moved the
>> >> >> >> >> Ubuntu
>> >> >> >> >> button out of that location.
>> >> >> >> >>...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > No, the usability test didn't show anything like that. (How
>> >> >> >> > could
>> >> >> >> > it
>> >> >> >> > have, when the test environment used only one placement?)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > What it did show was that, except for a bug, everyone managed
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > close a
>> >> >> >> > window. However, 4 of 11 people clicked the Me menu thinking it
>> >> >> >> > might
>> >> >> >> > be
>> >> >> >> > the close button.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > - --
>> >> >> >> > mpt
>> >> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> >> >> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>> >> >> >> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > iEYEARECAAYFAk5c57wACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqBwACdGwSiKNTl4R4mGFP2XxM/VNSk
>> >> >> >> > LS0An2j+62m/nhfiU7eQovY2naYb0A3T
>> >> >> >> > =5qUv
>> >> >> >> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> >> > Post to : ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> >> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> >> Post to : ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> >> >> >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Ian Santopietro
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> >> >> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>> >> >> > Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Pa gur yv y porthaur?
>> >> >> > Public GPG key
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Ian Santopietro
>> >> >
>> >> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> >> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >> >
>> >> > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>> >> > Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>> >> >
>> >> > Pa gur yv y porthaur?
>> >> > Public GPG key
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ian Santopietro
>> >
>> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>> >
>> > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>> > Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>> >
>> > Pa gur yv y porthaur?
>> > Public GPG key
>> >
>> > (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Santopietro
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
> Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
>
> Pa gur yv y porthaur?
> Public GPG key
> (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
>

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