kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Nick Østergaard <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hello all,

I will attempt to summarize the status as I see it.

Lots of fixes have been comming in over the last few weeks. But if we are
to keep up with Wayne's goal of having a v5 release for FOSDEM, I think we
tag 5.0.0-rc1 soon. There is no reason we can still fix stuff untill we
make the final 5.0.0 release, and create the 5.0 branch from there. Then we
can unfreeze the feature freeze on master, and git describe matster will be
relative to this point. I have attached an example and caricature of the
previous kicad branching and how I see expect the future too look like.

We shall accept that it will probably only be a release candidate for
FOSDEM, but that would be great too!

If there are some things that simply need to be in 5.0.0 -- I think we need
a shoutout now. Looking at https://launchpad.net/kicad/+milestone/5.0.0-rc1
there are only two outstanding bugs.

The library team seem to be ready to tag also,
https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-symbols/issues/133

I guess the doc will not have much time to get much love before the
release. But this is mostly about new features not being documented and
probably some cleanup and modernization. I guess we are more likely to get
some feedback on the docs after the first v5 release.

The translations will need a bit of touchup on some languages, the ones
almost done but needs a bit is en, ru, de, and es. These can probably reach
100% before v5 if we are lucky. This sort of requires we have a kicad tag
to update against. I think some of those languages also keep unused
strings, so even if it is not at 100% it might be complete. But I am not
sure about this.

Regards
Nick Østergaard



2018-01-02 21:07 GMT+01:00 Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>:

> I plan on adding the remapping feature to the Eeschema documentation
> before the stable 5 release.  Hopefully I can find the time to knock it
> out it the next week or two to give our translators plenty of time.
>
> On 1/2/2018 2:59 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> > Of course. My confusion mostly surrounds how it interacts with rescue
> > and when it does and does not decide to write things to disk (see José's
> > point about it clobbering its own backups).
> >
> > In any case, I don't need you to explain it to me. You and I aren't the
> > only KiCad users, and if people who've been using KiCad for years and
> > have actual dev experience (specifically myself and José here) can't
> > figure it out, scads of users are going to have the same problem. It
> > needs to be made clearer, not explained on the mailing list.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:55:31PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >> Let's start at the beginning.  Are you clear on why symbols need to be
> >> remapped?
> >>
> >> On 1/2/2018 2:52 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >>> Honestly, with this symbol library stuff it's been hard for me to
> figure
> >>> out what's a bug and what's a confusing design decision. Bug reports
> for
> >>> the latter are rather frowned upon so I've been refraining from filing
> >>> many bugs.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:51:14PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >>>> I just tested this repo and it failed to remap every symbol so either
> >>>> something has been broken or this project is a corner case that I
> >>>> haven't stumbled across yet.  I will keep informed of my progress.  In
> >>>> the future, please file bug report when you see something like this.
> If
> >>>> you just discuss it on irc, I have no way of knowing this is an issue
> >>>> unless I manage to free up some time (unlikely any time soon) to spend
> >>>> on irc.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 1/2/2018 2:42 PM, José Ignacio wrote:
> >>>>> This sequence of actions is what puts the project on a stuffed up
> state:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * Open schematic and be greeted with some symbols that need rescue,
> >>>>> rescue a couple symbols
> >>>>> * Be greeted by the remap dialog (1)
> >>>>> * Regret remapping and quit without save
> >>>>> * Open schematic again
> >>>>> * Be greeted by the rescue dialog, with ALL symbols, refuse
> >>>>> * Remap dialog fails to find anything, click through (2)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Schematic looks fine, but the remap and rescue dialogs will show up
> >>>>> every time even though there is a valid sym-lib-table.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (1) At this point the pro file is overwritten, deleting all project
> >>>>> library entries
> >>>>> (2) At this point the pro file is overwritten again!, clobbering the
> >>>>> backup (SOL)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you accept the second rescue you will have to map everything
> >>>>> manually. The remapper should really take the existing sym-lib-table
> or
> >>>>> just not clobber the pro file until the schematic is saved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The close without save step should be perfectly valid if you're just
> >>>>> peeking at an old project and (possibly much later) you want to go
> >>>>> modify it you're greeted with that bad surprise.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Chris Pavlina <
> pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 02:20:10PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >>>>>     > It's exactly as insane as the cache has always been.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     I respectfully disagree. As I recall from many years of using
> KiCad
> >>>>>     before this, nothing about the cache has ever spontaneously
> deleted all
> >>>>>     libraries without warning. That's a whole new level of insanity
> that
> >>>>>     deserves its own "what not to do" section in a UX book
> somewhere. (And
> >>>>>     before you think this is all just "this UX guide sez" vague
> complaining,
> >>>>>     don't forget that I and many others still have _no idea wtf
> we're doing_
> >>>>>     trying to drive this thing.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     > The only way I can
> >>>>>     > think of this happening is that the schematic was not saved
> after the
> >>>>>     > remapping and once all of the libraries are removed from the
> project
> >>>>>     > file but cache should still be valid if no save was
> performed.  Let me
> >>>>>     > try remapping this project and I will get back to you.
> >>>>>     >
> >>>>>     > On 1/2/2018 2:08 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >>>>>     > > Ah, that explains my question mark case. That's insane.
> >>>>>     > >
> >>>>>     > > On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:08:11PM -0600, José Ignacio wrote:
> >>>>>     > >> One big problem is that even if everything fails, the
> project
> >>>>>     will show up
> >>>>>     > >> fine with all symbols, but they wont have the remap done. at
> >>>>>     the same time
> >>>>>     > >> the remapper deletes all library entries from the project
> file,
> >>>>>     which
> >>>>>     > >> causes it to open with question marks only if you reopen it
> >>>>>     again after
> >>>>>     > >> saving. It should show the question marks before then or
> make
> >>>>>     better use of
> >>>>>     > >> the cache.
> >>>>>     > >>
> >>>>>     > >> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:44 PM, Chris Pavlina
> >>>>>     <pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:pavlina.chris@xxxxxxxxx>>
> >>>>>     > >> wrote:
> >>>>>     > >>
> >>>>>     > >>> Keep in mind my problem is not necessarily that things are
> >>>>>     _broken_ but
> >>>>>     > >>> perhaps that they are so opaque that they only make sense
> in
> >>>>>     the mind of
> >>>>>     > >>> the designer. As I said in the previous message, we've been
> >>>>>     getting TONS
> >>>>>     > >>> of people on IRC who can't figure out how the hell to drive
> >>>>>     this thing,
> >>>>>     > >>> and I count myself among them. Still takes me like three
> tries
> >>>>>     to load
> >>>>>     > >>> an old project without it stuffing everything up.
> >>>>>     > >>>
> >>>>>     > >>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 01:40:40PM -0500, Wayne Stambaugh
> wrote:
> >>>>>     > >>>> Please send me a sample project if possible.  I have
> tested
> >>>>>     this every
> >>>>>     > >>>> which way I can think of and it works fine for everything
> I
> >>>>>     throw at it.
> >>>>>     > >>>>  The only time things fall apart are when the cache is
> >>>>>     corrupted or
> >>>>>     > >>>> missing and/or rescues have be ignored.  In those cases
> there
> >>>>>     is nothing
> >>>>>     > >>>> I can do because the proper symbols do not exist anywhere
> so
> >>>>>     remapping
> >>>>>     > >>>> is not possible.
> >>>>>     > >>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>> On 1/2/2018 1:33 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> >>>>>     > >>>>> Are we really going to do an RC now without any more
> work to
> >>>>>     the remap
> >>>>>     > >>>>> stuff? I just had it ruin another project last night. It
> >>>>>     behaves very
> >>>>>     > >>>>> poorly when things also have to be rescued or libraries
> are
> >>>>>     missing, it
> >>>>>     > >>>>> seems.
> >>>>>     > >>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 02, 2018 at 09:10:20AM -0500, Wayne
> Stambaugh wrote:
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> On 1/2/2018 8:58 AM, Tomasz Wlostowski wrote:
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>> On 28/12/17 20:24, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> There are a few outstanding crash bugs that need to be
> >>>>>     fixed before
> >>>>>     > >>> we
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> can consider branching the stable 5 release.  Here is
> the
> >>>>>     list of
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> unresolved crash bugs that effect the development
> branch:
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788
> >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1562788>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274
> >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1732274>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872
> >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738872>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999
> >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1738999>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614
> >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1739614>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253
> >>>>>     <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1740253>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>> Hey Wayne,
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>> I fixed the remaining 2 bugs yesterday (the STEP import
> >>>>>     one is a bug
> >>>>>     > >>> in
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>> OCE). Please proceed with the 5.0-rc.
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Hi Tom,
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Thanks!.  I wont have time to get to this until the
> >>>>>     weekend.  If there
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> are no additional critical severity bug reports by
> then, I
> >>>>>     will create
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> the version 5 branch.
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Wayne
> >>>>>     > >>>>>>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >>>>>     > >>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
> >>>>>     > >>>
> >>>>>     > >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>     > >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> >>>>>     <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> >>>>>     > >>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>     <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>     > >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> >>>>>     <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
> >>>>>     > >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
>
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