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Re: Call for user cases ?


On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 12:15, Christoph Zwerschke <cito@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Am 04.03.2012 07:19, schrieb Ulf Bro:
>> The editor I use in everyday life is Vim (Vi). Here you switch
>> between modes all the time. But you do so without taking your fingers
>> off the keyboard. A similar "edit" mode in Zim would be no harm so
>> long as one could keep the mouse out of the business.
> That's true, but the big difference is that in vi, the data and its
> rendering doesn't change at all when you switch between modes. vi doesn't
> show any rendered data, it only changes the accepted keyboard commands. But
> when you switch between rendered display and raw data, the content of your
> editor window changes, and usually it's not even possible to adapt the
> cursor position. So when you spot a typo in view mode, and then switch to
> edit mode, you need to find the location of that typo in the markup again.
> This is what makes separate edit/view modes so unproductive for everyday use
> in a personal wiki in my opionon.

I have filed in RFE to make this easier: when switching to Edit Source
mode Zim should keep the cursor in the same location as it was in
normal mode:

> I think switching to raw mode should only
> be used as a last resort in zim, not be encouraged as the standard way of
> editing content.

Then why do you prefer that you can type //some text// to have it
italicized in the normal window? What is wrong with Ctrl-I before and
after? It is exactly the confusion between raw/source mode and normal
mode that hinders Zim from handling arbitrary input.

In other words, there already exists shortcuts for headings and
formating in Zim, with the Ctrl modifiers just like in any other
formatted editor. If one wants to type wiki-syntax directly, then have
an easy way to switch to wiki-syntax / raw / source mode.

> But speaking of vi, it's a perfect example for great and mature software
> that is still not usable for the "casual" user. Without getting aquainted
> with the two input modes and the keyboard commands, users will only be
> frustrated with vi.

Agreed, even as a heavy VIM user myself (typing even now in GVIM!).
That is exactly why having the wiki syntax active in the normal mode
is confusing. Casual users will not already know the wiki syntax.

>>> One thing that surely should be added is a way to easily switch
>>> the editor to "raw mode" where it does not do any rendering. It
>>> should not be understood or used as the default edit mode, but it
>>> may be sometimes useful to see or edit the raw version of a page.
>> That is the point I'd like to support. With one key, and this could
>> be a function key like F2 for example, you could open an external
>> editor in a new window of course on the currently displayed page (im
>> my case that would be Vim) and do whatever editing you find suitable.
>> Then after saving, do a reload with Ctrl-R and that's it.
>> On the other hand you mostly really shouldn't need to do that.
>> Therefore there is no need to waste time doing revolutionary
>> development on Zim's code to enable raw editing. Just a key to open
>> an external editor and that's it.
> Agree. Except opening an external editor can be dangerous because then you
> have two disconnected editing windows open for the same content, and you can
> easily loose data when you save at the wrong time in the wrong editor.
> Better to include a real raw editing *mode* which can also have a keyboard
> shortcut. It would be a bit more work, but I don't think revolutionary
> development work will be needed for that.

Exactly what I had proposed! Please comment on that RFE mentiond above.


Dotan Cohen